OUCH!

(salaried EE BTW)

 

Very well said Todd. While I do think that the original idea of unions is great, I sometimes wonder what they have turned in to. If you put in and honest effort and work hard, you will be rewarded for it (from my experience at least)...

 

Boy, I can tell knowledge of Unions here is small...I am a UAW member, Local 402, and I have worked in non-unions shops including for the Japanese in my begginings. I was actually treated MUCH better by the Japanese than U.S. non-Union shops. As a salaried Engineering Assisstant, I was frequently MADE work over, notified only a couple of hours ahead of time, or I could quit, as I was once told... I've had my fill of 18 hour days, and promises of "Comp-Time" that NEVER materialized...
And I can tell you that for every Union employee that abused his job ( as you say sleeping..) there was an equal number of salaried employees coming in late, leaving early and taking LONG lunches. Why should those courtesies be alllowed for White-collared workers, and denied Blue-collared workers???
What was once only a problem for Blue-collar workers, has now reahed into high skilled positions. India, for example, has Universities funded by BIG Buisness, pumping out Low-Wage replacements for many high skilled jobs here. Some buisnesses were built just outside University walls. I saw a segment on TV recently, where Doctors would E-Mail X-rays and MRI's to India and have them analyzed and 3-D modeled etc, then the results would be sent back. Even reaching into CPA's, they are E-Mailing Taxe returns out of the country, with a whole host of other various higher skilled jobs. Where's our voice to object?? It's being systematically destroyed by those seeking high profits on investments, not realizing the Long term affects...
They are adjusting, compromising almost out of existence, being THREATENED by companies, saying they will pull out of a town if they don't concede...
Yeah, that was then, this is now, but then is coming again, look around, really...I guess we must hit bottom again before people come together again to preserve DIGNITY in the workplace...Why are we so blind to the past, and inherently "re-active"..

I will agree that some past abuses by Unions have created most of the problems they face today, but the same abuses in the "salaried" jobs are having a similar effect there as well...To say it's acceptable on salaries because one seems to be more educated is obsurd...(And actually not true, I was shocked how many people with B.A.'s were on my assembly line, and a few M.B.A.'s..)

 

So it's OK for union employees to freeload because salaried employees freeload.

All of you guys should try to get a job in the real world. You may find it shocking.

 

Ofcourse not, but what of the "real world jobs", you mean like McD's? I see people in there free-loading and eating profits ALL of the time...My point is, why single out ONE group, when they all do it to a degree, at least from time to time.
I've worked everything from a : Hotel-Dish-washer/"full time student", residential construction bottom-to-top, auto mechanic, product final inspector, plant-wide trouble shooter, engineer assisstant, technical-specialist, ISO-9000 certified Auditor, Auto-assembler/welder....which one is REAL enough???
Without the Union, I meant SQUAT..to some of these. I remember once after a string of 16+hour days following product tests through the entire plant, I was having trouble making it to work on time(5-10mins late). I was threatened to be FIRED!...Here I was, thinking I was helping My company, making a difference, and my thanks was,"get here on time or we'll have to let you go, we can't make exceptions for your long hours or people might complain"....or close paraphrase..
I just get tired of the "Pot calling the Kettle, black"....

 

90rocz, I'm sure that you are a hard worker....I wasn't calling you out specifically.

I'm not a union man, but I have been in a union or two in my life. Mostly during my "college part time job" period. The union took afew bucks out of my check--for dues-- every week, but beyond that, I had no meaningful perception that they were doing anything for me other than lightening my wallet.

From my perspective, unions currently act as third party middlemen. They shake down employers for more money, so they can continue to shakedown workers for more dues. I'm not so thrilled in they way they indoctrinate their members...politically..to further their own agenda either. Their power eminates from creating an adversarial relationship in the workplace.

I think that on the Sopranos, that would be called racketteering.

As an employer, I can tell you that you will absolutely kiss the butt of any employee that does a good job. Only an idiot would mistreat good, effective, hard working employees. You will bend over backwards to give them anything that they require. That's how business works.......and that's what I mean by the real world.

 

You think I don't know that? I'm in the semiconductor business. 70% of the people that used to work here at my plant no longer do. That's business. You're not blowing my skirt up.
That's pretty much my take on it, too. If the fair and equitable could go without the shakedown tactics, we'd be better off. I've had close contact with union officers here at the plant (in fact, I'm training one right now) and his view of the "big picture" is horribly clouded and one-sided. I'm not really on the "other" side of the company, per se, I'm an equipment vendor, so my view is from the outside.

And, don't think that I'm completely anti-union, either. The fact that I can go to a hall, and get four electricians that I KNOW (relatively speaking) will do the work adequately is a good thing. Plumbers, some nuclear-grade welders that can lay down welds that look like they were made with butter... all good.

Because, from the outside, one group is artificially protected from the normal recourse. I find, generally, that people who can be fired at any moment, for any reason, tend to put forth a better effort (once we start talking about real money wages, anyway). It's simply human nature.

Todd

 

Sounds like you've seen too many old movies. This may have been in some Old Chicago factories, but here, the fight is for wages that the job is worth. I haven't had a true raise in pay in the 8+ yrs as a UAW assembler, all we get is the "lump-sum" Cost Of Living Allowance(or C.O.L.A.) Which never gets added to any of my hours or overtime...If anything the Union has fought strong opposition among its members to keep jobs by passing cuts in Insurance and freezing wages, and allowing more flexible use of overtime by the company.(ie; mandantory OT with notification) They also fight to keep management, mostly lower level, from abusing workers by having them add a LOT of work NOT on their job description, and keeping seinority rights concerning job openings and OT preferences. And occasionally they will keep someone from being fired when a supervisor and employee strongly disagree about something...
I guess you'd have to be in one for some time before you can really see ALL that is benefitted from them, old stereotypes die hard...
They are NOT protected from NORMAL recourse, if someone is EVER caught sleeping, drinking, drugs, habitual tardies, refusing to do a job, insubordination etc, HE'S GONE!...NO HELP...BUT, they will investigate it to ensure his rights weren't violated, and it wasn't personal etc...
Without a Union, when it comes to downsizing, YOU'RE GONE, adios, bye bye, see ya later...thanks for the memories...I've seen guys with 20+yrs in management get the axe without regard to their retirement...NO VOICE....
I wish this was always the case, that's how I conducted myself as a boss, but the larger the company, the more it's the opposite...As I said, I've worked some 16+hr days following tests, charting defects etc, and was given NO FLEXIBILITY for tardyness...
And now with the Boarders Opened, some BIG ammo has been given companies to coerce employees to do more for the same pay or less...