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LS9/LS8/LSA..are they compatible with CAFE?

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Old Jan 9, 2008 | 04:43 PM
  #16  
97z28/m6's Avatar
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Originally Posted by DAKMOR
They could just re-design them into performance and economy modes, but nobody wants to drive a 120hp 6.2L Supercharged V8 that gets 30mpg.
i would. pulley changes would make killer hp.
Old Jan 9, 2008 | 05:26 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Z284ever
I'd guess you could figure CTSV, Z/28, Z06, ZR1 production combined at 30-40,000 annual units?

That takes out alot of Aveos.
I'd expect sales of Cobalts, HHRs, and 4-cyl/A6 Malibus will help as well.
Old Jan 9, 2008 | 05:37 PM
  #18  
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What they could also do is build 100,000 vehicles with motorcycle engines that exceed the 2035 rules every year. That gives them an additional 100,000 or more mpg to ease their faster cars with. With off the shelf engines and simplicity in mind, I'm quite sure you can build something for half the price of an Aveo.

At 100,000 that's $500,000, sell for tag of $6,000 each, and that's $100,000 in profit. But of course they'd go for $7K, efectively doubling profit, and allowing them to build more, and increase their supply so they can earn more profit and have more leeway in CAFE, ooohhh, a great cycle there eh?

Rule doesn't say they have to sell them, just have to make them and even if they don't, it's still only half a million they invested for it. Compare to marketign costs and you'll see it being a great idea if you are willing to take the risk.

Last edited by DAKMOR; Jan 9, 2008 at 05:41 PM.
Old Jan 10, 2008 | 11:40 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by DAKMOR
What they could also do is build 100,000 vehicles with motorcycle engines that exceed the 2035 rules every year. That gives them an additional 100,000 or more mpg to ease their faster cars with. With off the shelf engines and simplicity in mind, I'm quite sure you can build something for half the price of an Aveo.
And I am quite sure you're wrong.

The mass and cost of the safety equipment alone on a modern car drives prices skyward in a big hurry.

Furthermore, a 500 lbs. bike requires a drivetrain with robustness a quantum level lower than that of a 2600 - 3000 lbs. car.

Lastly, motorcycle engines (particularly high powered ones), generally require premium fuel, are low on torque, and get the ever-loving snot revved out of them to make power - not a good recipe for customer satisfaction.


A ~200hp, +500 lbs. 2008 Suzuki Hayabusa checks in at ~$11,499. I think that's more than an Aveo that weighs roughly 5 times as much, has air conditioning, doors with roll-down windows, a trunk, 4 seats, 4 wheels and tires, a radio, air bags, etc...

Generally speaking, the Busa is considered to have the most robust engine in the industry, but even then it would need lots of durability enhancements (which would rob power), would have to be retuned for regular unleaded (which would necessitate reduced compression and hence lower power), and would need an odd-ball transmission and a steep rear end gear to inadequately compensate for what would still be a horsepower/torque curve that simply doesn't make sense for a car.

There's no magic bullet. Stripped, crappy little cars do not sell and are liabilities regarding safety.

We'll get there, but not by turning cars into pseudo-motorcycles.


For $6,000 you don't get much of a BIKE, let alone a car.

Last edited by PacerX; Jan 10, 2008 at 11:42 AM.
Old Jan 10, 2008 | 12:11 PM
  #20  
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Its too bad those urban legends on high mpg cars weren't true.

http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp
Old Jan 10, 2008 | 03:07 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Z284ever
What's Z06 production, 8 or 9K per year?
More like 6-7K currently, and they'll drop when the ZR1 goes into production.

Premium vehicles like those getting supercharged engines from the GM Performance Center will not go away because of CAFE - they'll go away if the market demand isn't there.
Old Jan 10, 2008 | 03:28 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Eric Bryant
More like 6-7K currently, and they'll drop when the ZR1 goes into production.

Premium vehicles like those getting supercharged engines from the GM Performance Center will not go away because of CAFE - they'll go away if the market demand isn't there.
my guess is ZR1 will Cannibalize at least 1000 Z06 sales.
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