a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 563
From: Z
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
Originally Posted by JasonD
That's too bad. Sell your car and buy a Ford. I myself will continue to enjoy my current Camaro and I hope to see a new Camaro right around the time my current one is paid off.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,232
From: Orlando, FL USA
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
I love the quote on the vette board about "...we own the Corvette, GM just has the privelage of building it for us.." 
Get a life pal!
Anyhow, this whole thing really s@cks IMO. All the little hints and such that has kept us on the edge of our seats for a new Camaro are gonna be gone and what fun is that gonna be? GM was tight lipped before, who knows how bad its gonna be now?
Hopefully GM finds the source of the issue and takes legal action accordingly. Amazing how someone's personal vendetta against a company can ruin it for us all. Sad day for the 5th gen forum......
To Red Planet, thank you sir once again for everything you've done for the one thing we all love so much. When things have gotten out of hand here, you've stepped in and settled things down. I'm sure this place is gonna be a nuthouse now without those words. Good luck in your cause. I too work for a large corp. and realize how hard it is to get your voice heard and get things done in a timely fashion.
continuing to "keep the faith"
Get a life pal! Anyhow, this whole thing really s@cks IMO. All the little hints and such that has kept us on the edge of our seats for a new Camaro are gonna be gone and what fun is that gonna be? GM was tight lipped before, who knows how bad its gonna be now?
Hopefully GM finds the source of the issue and takes legal action accordingly. Amazing how someone's personal vendetta against a company can ruin it for us all. Sad day for the 5th gen forum......
To Red Planet, thank you sir once again for everything you've done for the one thing we all love so much. When things have gotten out of hand here, you've stepped in and settled things down. I'm sure this place is gonna be a nuthouse now without those words. Good luck in your cause. I too work for a large corp. and realize how hard it is to get your voice heard and get things done in a timely fashion.
continuing to "keep the faith"
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 599
From: Inland Empire, CA
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
Originally Posted by SFireGT98
I love the quote on the vette board about "...we own the Corvette, GM just has the privelage of building it for us.." Get a life pal!
Get a life pal! 
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 178
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
Originally Posted by MunchE
Um, that is very, very true. Without the fans and the buyers, GM is nothing.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
That's what it looks like GM likes to do now. They give you something and act as if you should just be happy you got it instead of really listening and catering to it's fans. Enthusiasts might be the minority, but I'd pay the most attention to them, because they are the ones with the most enthusiasm and are the most likey to buy your productd and your products only. Especially the "specific" ones. 
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
Originally Posted by IZ28
That's what it looks like GM likes to do now. They give you something and act as if you should just be happy you got it instead of really listening and catering to it's fans. Enthusiasts might be the minority, but I'd pay the most attention to them, because they are the ones with the most enthusiasm and are the most likey to buy your productd and your products only. Especially the "specific" ones.
If GM didn't "listen" to it's customers it would be out of business in a heartbeat. What the heck do you think Red does 24/7?
Truth is the "enthusiast" is a VERY small portion of their customer base....
GM is gaining ground against it's competitors and will accelerate that rate as new product comes on line.
I know it's hard for some to understand, but the automotive world does not revolve around our litttle corner....
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,808
From: FL/MI
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
Originally Posted by IZ28
That's what it looks like GM likes to do now. They give you something and act as if you should just be happy you got it instead of really listening and catering to it's fans. Enthusiasts might be the minority, but I'd pay the most attention to them, because they are the ones with the most enthusiasm and are the most likey to buy your productd and your products only. Especially the "specific" ones.
As for performance enthusiasts? I don't believe you can lump them into a lock-step group with a single vision or a formula for a vehicle that will appeal to all. The folks into high performance driving are not all into the same type of vehicle. Suspension for remarkable road handling rarely equate to eyeball sinking 60 foot times, for instance.
GM certainly listens to enthusiasts.
It is a business though, and even a business approached with passion also has realities that have to be taken into consideration.
Look at the different criteria that comes through on this or any other enthusiast site. Business dictates not just understanding what people want. It's more about what they will PAY for. Poorly done focus groups are rife with info on what folks WANT, but well done focus info capture what they want and more importantly will BUY.
Some auto forums have a portion of very vocal members that have never purchased a new vehicle, and some of that group never will. Vehicle manufacturers don't build used cars, and if you catch my drift, new car sales are the bigger picture to get right.
Perceptions are personal. Your perceptions of GM and mine are not at all the same.
Last edited by 1fastdog; Nov 19, 2004 at 12:50 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,320
From: Alta Loma, CA
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
Originally Posted by 1fastdog
No business that is not a monopoly operates with a take it or leave it attitude.
As for performance enthusiasts I don't believe you can lump them into a lock-step group with a single vision or a formula that will appeal to all. The folks into high performance driving are not all into the same type of vehicle.
GM certainly listens to enthusiasts. It is a business though and even a business approached with passion has realities that have to be taken into consideration.
Look at the different criteria that comes through on this or any other enthusiast site. Busines dictates not just understanding what people want. It's more about what they will PAY for. Poorly done focus groups are rife with info on what folks WANT, but well done focus info capture what they want and more importantly will BUY.
Some auto forums have a portion of very vocal members that have never purchased a new vehicle, and some of that group never will. Vehicle manufacturers don't build used cars, and if you catch my drift, new car sales are the bigger picture to get right.
As for performance enthusiasts I don't believe you can lump them into a lock-step group with a single vision or a formula that will appeal to all. The folks into high performance driving are not all into the same type of vehicle.
GM certainly listens to enthusiasts. It is a business though and even a business approached with passion has realities that have to be taken into consideration.
Look at the different criteria that comes through on this or any other enthusiast site. Busines dictates not just understanding what people want. It's more about what they will PAY for. Poorly done focus groups are rife with info on what folks WANT, but well done focus info capture what they want and more importantly will BUY.
Some auto forums have a portion of very vocal members that have never purchased a new vehicle, and some of that group never will. Vehicle manufacturers don't build used cars, and if you catch my drift, new car sales are the bigger picture to get right.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 805
From: MI
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
Wow, 10 pages? Who cares!? In the end, GM is a car company. It's success relies on whether or not the general public will purchase the cars that they manufacture. I've heard that the 06 SVT Mustang will be at the NAIAS, and to say I'm excited would be an understatement.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 578
From: N. Providence, RI
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
yeah, this thread did take on a mind of it's own...lol
at least the admin kept it open, and everyone had a chance to have their say
at least the admin kept it open, and everyone had a chance to have their say
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 753
From: Annapolis Md. USA
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
GM is gaining ground against it's competitors and will accelerate that rate as new product comes on line
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
Originally Posted by 2MCHPSI
Actually GM keeps losing market share. Are you talking about a particular segment?
Chevrolet dreamed the impossible dream. On Dec. 31, that dream may come true.
When Chevy initiated its "American Revolution" marketing program this year, one of its announced goals was to regain first place in car-truck sales. Chevrolet hasn't been the leader since 1986.
Colleagues smiled politely when Chevy talked about unseating Ford. In the auto business, you don't laugh outright at Chevrolet, but a polite smile is permitted if Chevy makes a preposterous statement.
Chevy's dream of being No. 1 was pretty preposterous. After all, in the last 10 years, Ford's winning margin has never been less than 200,000 units. In 1998, 1999 and 2000, Ford won by more than 800,000. Last year, it was 243,992. How was Chevrolet going to overcome deficits like that?
But pay attention. Going into October, Chevy was only 8,303 sales behind Ford for this year.
No way, Chevrolet
For the first six months of this year, there was no way Chevy was going to challenge Ford. Ford led by 67,567 after three months and lengthened its margin to 107,157 at midyear. Ford outsold Chevrolet in every one of those six months.
Then came the third quarter. Chevy loved it. Ford didn't. By the end of August, Chevy was down only 53,953, and in September, Chevy blew Ford out of the water, winning by an astonishing 45,650 sales. By Sept. 30, Chevrolet had reduced Ford's year-to-date advantage to 8,303 vehicles.
It would take a brave person to predict the year's outcome in print, but keep this in mind: Chevrolet is on a roll; Ford is being rolled.
Chevrolet has done it by a virtual wipeout of Ford in car sales. At this time a year ago, Ford had sold 8,000 more cars than Chevy. Now, Chevy has sold 165,000 more than Ford. Ford sits in fourth place in car sales behind Chevrolet, Toyota and Honda.
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=10207
When Chevy initiated its "American Revolution" marketing program this year, one of its announced goals was to regain first place in car-truck sales. Chevrolet hasn't been the leader since 1986.
Colleagues smiled politely when Chevy talked about unseating Ford. In the auto business, you don't laugh outright at Chevrolet, but a polite smile is permitted if Chevy makes a preposterous statement.
Chevy's dream of being No. 1 was pretty preposterous. After all, in the last 10 years, Ford's winning margin has never been less than 200,000 units. In 1998, 1999 and 2000, Ford won by more than 800,000. Last year, it was 243,992. How was Chevrolet going to overcome deficits like that?
But pay attention. Going into October, Chevy was only 8,303 sales behind Ford for this year.
No way, Chevrolet
For the first six months of this year, there was no way Chevy was going to challenge Ford. Ford led by 67,567 after three months and lengthened its margin to 107,157 at midyear. Ford outsold Chevrolet in every one of those six months.
Then came the third quarter. Chevy loved it. Ford didn't. By the end of August, Chevy was down only 53,953, and in September, Chevy blew Ford out of the water, winning by an astonishing 45,650 sales. By Sept. 30, Chevrolet had reduced Ford's year-to-date advantage to 8,303 vehicles.
It would take a brave person to predict the year's outcome in print, but keep this in mind: Chevrolet is on a roll; Ford is being rolled.
Chevrolet has done it by a virtual wipeout of Ford in car sales. At this time a year ago, Ford had sold 8,000 more cars than Chevy. Now, Chevy has sold 165,000 more than Ford. Ford sits in fourth place in car sales behind Chevrolet, Toyota and Honda.
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=10207
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,402
From: Toronto, ON Canada
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
OK, so the article shows that Chevy is getting ahead of Ford in sales for this year (almost ahead). But what about the big picture, taking all brands in NA into account - how is it doing? Do you have any info on GM's market share at this point?
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 753
From: Annapolis Md. USA
Re: a little legal 'strong-arming' from GM???
You are not looking at the bigger picture. GM had 36 percent of the light vehicle market share in 1990.. It is only 26 percent as of now. it has dropped signifigantly for 15 years. They are no near where they were 15 years ago.. 2003 was the first time they actually showed a small gain, instead of kept losing share, but it by no means says GM is doing great. Lutz is hoping to gain back market share to 30 percent by 2005, He has a lot of work ahead of him.
So technically you are right, GM is gaining market share, by a c-hair. It is more like they gained back a spec of what they used to have. But they need to provide miracles to get back to where they were. Time will tell is Lutz did his job
So technically you are right, GM is gaining market share, by a c-hair. It is more like they gained back a spec of what they used to have. But they need to provide miracles to get back to where they were. Time will tell is Lutz did his job
Last edited by 2MCHPSI; Nov 19, 2004 at 04:27 PM.
