Just some thoughts on Buick, Pontiac and Holden...
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 848
From: Melb, Aust
Re: Just some thoughts on Buick, Pontiac and Holden...
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Buick and Pontiac should peruse this menu..
Buick, take special note of the Grange.
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vz/main.html
Buick, take special note of the Grange.
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vz/main.html
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Just some thoughts on Buick, Pontiac and Holden...
Originally Posted by Z284ever
I actually prefer the looks of the Monaro though. So much cleaner, with it's different front fascia, spoiler-less deck lid and better looking 18" wheels.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: Just some thoughts on Buick, Pontiac and Holden...
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Has anyone noticed how much influence Pontiac seems to have over the Monaro program?
First, the Monaro production run would certainly be over without GTO. Also, Monaro got standard "bonnet scoops" and dual exhaust outlets this year, courtesy of GTO.
I think Pontiac's influence over the Monaro will now increase...after all Pontiac is by far the largest consumer of Monaro production.
I actually prefer the looks of the Monaro though. So much cleaner, with it's different front fascia, spoiler-less deck lid and better looking 18" wheels.
First, the Monaro production run would certainly be over without GTO. Also, Monaro got standard "bonnet scoops" and dual exhaust outlets this year, courtesy of GTO.
I think Pontiac's influence over the Monaro will now increase...after all Pontiac is by far the largest consumer of Monaro production.
I actually prefer the looks of the Monaro though. So much cleaner, with it's different front fascia, spoiler-less deck lid and better looking 18" wheels.
I think you already see the bad in this. Holden did the current Monaro to be profitable at just 15,000 units over 3 years. With Monaro's 2 year extention, and the extra 54,000 GTOs over the initial 3 year contract turned Monaro into something of a cash cow.
For the new one, it seems GM-NA's influence has resulted in a delay (over a "reallocation of resources"), the possibility the current Monaro is dragged out over the remainder of the decade with no changes (save an upcoming new engine), and in the end, the whole project costing so much it runs the risk of being unprofitable!
IMHO, I feel they should have simply left it to Holden & stayed out of it.
Just like the Solstice fiasco, GM North America has engineers and designers and marketers create some fantastic iron, only to have it screwed up into oblivion because it has tons of people whose only jobs seems to be to make sure GM North America look completely incompetent.
Last edited by guionM; May 24, 2005 at 01:03 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Re: Just some thoughts on Buick, Pontiac and Holden...
Well, before Zeta was cancelled, the Monaro/GTO was scheduled to be manufactured in NA.
If anything, Zeta's cancellation is what will allow Holden to continue producing it's coupe. Both in VZ form and perhaps in future VE. For Pontiac, once the Monaro's few revisions ( gas tank, etc.), are paid for, the GTO will be virtually a free product.
I just hope GM lets Holden handle the styling though. If the GTO's sport appearance package is any indication, I am cautious of any further Pontiacization of the Monaro.
If anything, Zeta's cancellation is what will allow Holden to continue producing it's coupe. Both in VZ form and perhaps in future VE. For Pontiac, once the Monaro's few revisions ( gas tank, etc.), are paid for, the GTO will be virtually a free product.
I just hope GM lets Holden handle the styling though. If the GTO's sport appearance package is any indication, I am cautious of any further Pontiacization of the Monaro.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: Just some thoughts on Buick, Pontiac and Holden...
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Well, before Zeta was cancelled, the Monaro/GTO was scheduled to be manufactured in NA.
If anything, Zeta's cancellation is what will allow Holden to continue producing it's coupe. Both in VZ form and perhaps in future VE. For Pontiac, once the Monaro's few revisions ( gas tank, etc.), are paid for, the GTO will be virtually a free product.
I just hope GM lets Holden handle the styling though. If the GTO's sport appearance package is any indication, I am cautious of any further Pontiacization of the Monaro.
If anything, Zeta's cancellation is what will allow Holden to continue producing it's coupe. Both in VZ form and perhaps in future VE. For Pontiac, once the Monaro's few revisions ( gas tank, etc.), are paid for, the GTO will be virtually a free product.
I just hope GM lets Holden handle the styling though. If the GTO's sport appearance package is any indication, I am cautious of any further Pontiacization of the Monaro.
But as you point out, it was to be a NA manufactured car that GM-NA was somewhat responsable for getting into production (though Holden did the structural work). The weak link creating the delay this wasn't Holden.
GTO will be a free product to GM very soon, though I believe it already is.
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Joined: Nov 1998
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From: Knoxville, TN
Re: Just some thoughts on Buick, Pontiac and Holden...
Originally Posted by guionM
Fbod has already all but written it in blood, and Bob Lutz let it slip in his blog awhile back. What more do you need? 
The reason I can't pass anything on this that isn't printed is that it's not mine to give. If it comes up someplace else, then I might be able to add my 2 cents worth, but I won't break any new info on a future GM ponycar beyond the sports bike analogy from some months ago.
No offense - not meant to be a personal slam, just a rather blunt observation.
I don't think I ever said "I can't tell you what I know, but I know alot", though some of my posts probally came out that way, and I apologize.
But there's very good reason why GM won't come out and announce certain future products:
1. There's so many hoops a new vehicle has top jump through, that unless it's approval is guaranteed (ie: a midsize vehicle line, redesigned pickups, or Corvettes), GM media and others involved won't stick their neck out to make a public announcement. This goes for other businesses as well. Ford will always make a Mustang, but Chrysler doesn't already have a pony coupe. Ford was very open about the new Mustang, but Chrysler is still under public info lockdown regarding a "possible" LX based coupe.
1. There's so many hoops a new vehicle has top jump through, that unless it's approval is guaranteed (ie: a midsize vehicle line, redesigned pickups, or Corvettes), GM media and others involved won't stick their neck out to make a public announcement. This goes for other businesses as well. Ford will always make a Mustang, but Chrysler doesn't already have a pony coupe. Ford was very open about the new Mustang, but Chrysler is still under public info lockdown regarding a "possible" LX based coupe.
2. GM doesn't like to be embaressed. The approval process for any vehicle goes through spurts and stops. Sometimes it's even set back. Now, if GM were to say they are bringing a certain car out, but it later suffered a set back, then later jumped ahead, and a few months later, stalled, GM (or any company) would look bad.
3. There's more involved in getting a car to market than just the car. Think about the competition involved to not just make components for the car, but for the right to have the plant to make the car, the workers to make the car, even the community where the car's made and the machinery it's made with. Spill things too early, and others have leverage to force you to do business with them their way, even if it's towards your disadvantage.
4. Certain people sign confidentiality agreements, or are under verbal agreements. No one is going to risk their jobs or their contact's jobs just to be the 1st to post something on the internet. Ain't gonna happen.
That is MHO, of course.
So if some of us (me included) come across as "I know but I won't tell", it's not because we're out to frustrate you or an effort to look superior (most of the time anyway ). It's the conflict between being excited about something great vs knowing you can't talk about it.
). It's the conflict between being excited about something great vs knowing you can't talk about it.
That's when you get cryptic posts and smileys like this:
I do appreciate the response.
Bob
Last edited by Bob Cosby; May 25, 2005 at 06:16 AM.
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