I'm not following. Did you think I was ragging on the car or something? Or did you mean to quote someone else?

My point was that the car ought to have some refinement (which it does) along with its muscle car capabilities, because Shellhead said that a BMW is more like his WS6 than it is like an SRT8...I'm well aware of the specs/performance that it offers at a price that is rather reasonable (as far as 425 hp muscle sedans go, anyway). I was not implying that the car is somehow inferior to a BMW for similar money...

 

Actually, that was for shellhead, I just liked what you said.

 

All I know is that the LX platform is a better car than a lot of GM diehards give it credit for. There's a Magnum RT in my driveway right now, and its a phenomenal car. It feels so SOLID compared to so many other cars I've driven. This one has 51k on it (was just traded in on an '07), and its squeak and rattle free...something I can't even say of our 15k mile Comp G

Anyone who doesn't get the term "muscle sedan" needs to get out of the '80s...seriously. While I personally hate 4 doors, a lot more people prefer them. I'll stick to coupes, but you still have to give some of these new cars their fair due...the LXs are sweet cars, and if 300Cs had depreciated a little more (their resale is excellent), there'd be one of those in my driveway instead of the Comp G...

GM bias aside, of course

 

Let me clarify my comments somewhat, since I don't think I'm being clear. (hmmm......tad redundant there....) Communicative is exactly what I'm talking about - I didn't find the Charger SRT8 to be communicative enough. I'm not saying that a WS6 is on par with a BMW - that would be silly and extremely untrue. What I am saying is that the Charger feels *dead* in comparison with:

a WS6 - which communicates power from the sound and rumble even when just idling.

a 2006 BMW 3-series "M" - which communicates control and excitement in it's handling and dynamics.

a 2005 Nissan 350z- which communicates much of the same things as the BMW, except it rides nicer, has better interior materials and fit & finish (surprised me, too), and has a more noticeable exhaust note - though not as much as a WS6.

I am not suggesting that these cars are peers, nor am I suggesting that they are comparing apples to apples - they are not. What I am talking about is what defines a fun and exciting car. That car, to me, would embody some traits of all three of the cars listed above - mostly because those are three cars I've driven firsthand. Are they the best in the industry? Probably not. Do I enjoy those care more than Charger? You bet. I've got more time flogging a Charger SRT8 than I do flogging a 350Z, but I greatly prefer the Z and despite the fact it is a different type of car and not a direct comparison, there are characteristics of the Z that I think can be in a sedan - that is evidenced by the BMW. It's all about what's fun and it's all about how exciting the car is. The SRT8 only feels exciting when you mash the gas down - even when high-speed cornering, the car handles it, but the driver doesn't feel it as much as in the three cars I listed above. For $39k an SRT8 Charger (base) is, I think, a horrible deal and should in no way be a benchmark for anyone - especially GM's "excitement" division.

Hope this clears some ideas up, and I'm sorry if I haven't been clear thus far.

 

My 04 CompG is tight as a drum, at 54k miles. Yet here we go again with the same old myth being perpetuated, about those 'junky GM cars'...

 

Off the domestic car/interior pissing contest, it would be interesting to see what would happen if Pontiac, in addition to the G8, was able to bring in 500-1000 or so HSV GTS sedans in, and price them around the SRT-8's.

Of course, they would have to leave the styling alone, and Pontiac can't seem to do that to save their life...

 

Being as he owns one it is a personal observation NOT a perpetuated myth.

 

In that case, my observation cancels his since I'm an owner too. My point being, anecdotal gripes do not prove a statistical trend, like he was trying to imply. GM's offering world-class quality, despite the common (and ill-informed) mantras to the contrary.

 

World class huh? You seem to always like to throw that term around concerning GM cars..

 

Looks like you need to finish your reading homework:

http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...asp?ID=2005069

(Shows Buick and Cadillac for example, with FEWER initial quality issues than Toyota in 2005 )

 

Using "initial quality" as a proxy for overall perceived quality is like using skidpad ratings as a proxy for "handling". It's only one small part of the picture. Just because I didn't have to take it back to the dealer in the first 90 days doesn't mean the cupholders don't squeak, the handling isn't numb, the road noise isn't annoying, and the gaps above the tires don't scream "rental car" (for example).

 

Oh you mean dependability?

Looks like you ALSO need to do some reading homework:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/29/Auto...tops/index.htm

(shows GM vehicles holding seven of the seventeen categories for 2002-year vehicles, as winners in their category for long-term dependability )

 

I was making fun of you spouting the world class dribble. You are the same guy who said the G6's interior was world class when the car first came out. Thanks for sharing the links. Not sure how that compares to "world class" though.

I bet you think your GP has a world class interior also.

 

So your saying that because your car hasn't had any problems with interior rattles or squeaks that his doesn't either? Wow, you must think highly of yourself.

 

Big,

Why the hell do you ALWAYS have to be a GM nuthugger instead of being just a tad bit more objective? Not EVERY Grand Prix is a piece, nor is EVERY Grand Prix flawless...every car line can have issues. I bought the Comp G BECAUSE I know from personal experience the W Body is a solid, reliable car that's pretty fun to drive, and in supercharged form has a somewhat-respectable resale value down the road.

Did I say EVERY Comp G rattles? No...but mine does. "Cancel me out" if you prefer, but that doesn't change the premise. If anything, I've previously been accused of being too short-sighted when it came to issues with GM products, so don't act like I'm bashing here, ok???

For christ sakes, I SELL Chrysler products, yet I BUY GM products, so gimme a break will ya???? GM does have a history for having its cars end up with trim rattles. I've owned 8 GM products in all, and not ONE has been rattle free...some starting as little as 15k miles, as this one. My '01 had an obnoxious sunroof rattle at 20k.

Can you find a rattly Toyota? I'm sure you can. But give it a rest with the nuthugging. I make an observation that the SRT-8 makes a supercharged GP feel like a Corolla...you come out swinging. I make an observation about a rattle...off you go again.

Give it a rest, will ya? Sorry to get off topic, to the rest of you...