J.D. Power - Why Americans Favor International Brands Over Detroit Three
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From: SeVa
I dunno, Ever glance around and see all the slack-jawed zombies commuting too and fro, Bored people need boring cars to complete the cricle.
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In this same vein, today compare the product portfolios of Toyonda against the domestics. What's missing? Some are hit or miss but quite a bit is non existent in general. Only non-domestic that veers from the conservative straight and narrow is Nissan. Toyonda would seem to have a very middle of the road portfolio.
What are the Toyonda equivalents for....
Suburban / Yukon / Expedition
300 / Charger / SRT-8s
CTS V / STS V
Mustang / GT500
Silverado / F-150 (true 1/2 and multitude configurations)
Viper
Silverado HD / F Series SD (gas and diesel)
Ford GT
Corvette / Z06
Cobalt SS
Solstice / Sky
G6 Coupe Hardtop
Thus with all the props and enthusiasm for Toyonda, does America really want to trade in their domestic portfolio, purchase and drive the Toyonda flavor?
Considering the multitude of models and variants the domestics produce are all these comparisons propping the Toyonda machine done from a level playing field? Would Americans be happy if the domestics mimicked the Toyonda profolio exactly without all these other products (listed above)? If the domestics did this, there’s a strong certainty that these would be very strong probably class leading produces, but good lord at the end of the day a Camry is still a Camry and not large V8 coupe/sedan nor could you tow your 5th wheel around the country with it.
What are the Toyonda equivalents for....
Suburban / Yukon / Expedition
300 / Charger / SRT-8s
CTS V / STS V
Mustang / GT500
Silverado / F-150 (true 1/2 and multitude configurations)
Viper
Silverado HD / F Series SD (gas and diesel)
Ford GT
Corvette / Z06
Cobalt SS
Solstice / Sky
G6 Coupe Hardtop
Thus with all the props and enthusiasm for Toyonda, does America really want to trade in their domestic portfolio, purchase and drive the Toyonda flavor?
Considering the multitude of models and variants the domestics produce are all these comparisons propping the Toyonda machine done from a level playing field? Would Americans be happy if the domestics mimicked the Toyonda profolio exactly without all these other products (listed above)? If the domestics did this, there’s a strong certainty that these would be very strong probably class leading produces, but good lord at the end of the day a Camry is still a Camry and not large V8 coupe/sedan nor could you tow your 5th wheel around the country with it.
I wonder, however, if given everything we (Ford/GM) knows today, would THEY still have/be producing all the vehicles you mentioned?
Would Chevrolet build a Corvette at all (let alone a Z06) if it hadn’t started 50 years ago?
Would either Ford or GM still be producing all the various large trucks/SUV’s?
I don’t know the answer but I suspect you would see a smaller list than the one you presented here as I think some of those vehicles would either never have existed or been discounted a while ago.
My point being, a manufacturer doesn’t have to compete/have a competing model for everything everybody else offers to be profitable and to sell a lot of vehicles…at the end of the day, what really counts for all the nameplates is not how many of what vehicles they sold or what market segments they competed in but whether they are profitable or not selling what they do sell.
Last edited by Robert_Nashville; Jan 5, 2007 at 09:28 AM.
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From: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
(#28).Shy of maybe the Mazda Miata (MX-5) and the Honda S2000, there's pretty much no other import that really screams "check ME out!"
All the imports cover are daily-commuter, grocery getters
. I realize, that's probably the BIGGEST segment of the market, and goes part & parcel with the largest demographic of car buyers (middle-aged, working class) so if you are successful in that segment, then you've got nothing to worry about, but STILL, how un-inspired do you have to be to find anything "sporty" about ANY Toyota/Honda, etc.?!? My old econo-box Sunfire at least looked sporty, while also providing me with basic, no-frills transportation and good fuel economy
.
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From: oshawa,ontario,canada
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From: northeast Miss.
Originally Posted by bossco
I dunno, Ever glance around and see all the slack-jawed zombies commuting too and fro, Bored people need boring cars to complete the cricle.
Just thought id tie those thoughts together for giggles...
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From: San Diego, CA
The question is do more people want fun cars or are more willing to settle for boring cars that are only (a little) more reliable?
In other words, with exciting new vehicle line-ups in the very near future from American manufacturers, will people still prefer the mundane? If so.....that is still no reason for GM to start mimicking Toyota.
In other words, with exciting new vehicle line-ups in the very near future from American manufacturers, will people still prefer the mundane? If so.....that is still no reason for GM to start mimicking Toyota.
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From: Yadkinville, NC USA
Better article - same story... charts, graphs, etc.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...701030382/1148
"While 83 percent of the 500 consumers polled said they will consider buying or leasing an American-branded car or truck in the next 24 months, only 49 percent said they would "most likely" purchase a vehicle built by GM, Ford or Chrysler.
And of the 18 percent polled who avoid American brands entirely, the most influential concerns were about reliability, poor quality, resale value and fuel economy.
"People are just so many times more likely to avoid a domestic brand vehicle because of these issues than they are to avoid an Asian brand," said Todd Wilson, director of automotive research for J.D. Power in Westlake Village, Calif."
Now this should explain more about why I feel the way I do about... media bias, companies based in Asia, responsible spending, and MORONIC, IGNORANT, UNEDUCATED BUYERS in the USA... all in one story.
It's a bit long, but a great read.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...701030382/1148
"While 83 percent of the 500 consumers polled said they will consider buying or leasing an American-branded car or truck in the next 24 months, only 49 percent said they would "most likely" purchase a vehicle built by GM, Ford or Chrysler.
And of the 18 percent polled who avoid American brands entirely, the most influential concerns were about reliability, poor quality, resale value and fuel economy.
"People are just so many times more likely to avoid a domestic brand vehicle because of these issues than they are to avoid an Asian brand," said Todd Wilson, director of automotive research for J.D. Power in Westlake Village, Calif."
Now this should explain more about why I feel the way I do about... media bias, companies based in Asia, responsible spending, and MORONIC, IGNORANT, UNEDUCATED BUYERS in the USA... all in one story.
It's a bit long, but a great read.
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I think this is the full tilt version Robert was looking for......
http://detnews.com/graphics/2007/0102jdpower.pdf
http://detnews.com/graphics/2007/0102jdpower.pdf
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Posts: 2,610
From: Cincinnati, OH
GM is in a good position to start changing people's perceptions. They finally seem to have a good mix of management and product in the hopper (as the two go hand-in-hand).
Just as important, both the shareholders and the UAW seem to be onboard with Wagoner's turn around plan. From an outsider's perspective, he did a good job not alienating the UAW, so hopefully that helps come contract time later this year.
If the new products are as good as we're lead to believe, and if the stars align just right, GM will be able to change this image quicker than we believe.
Just as important, both the shareholders and the UAW seem to be onboard with Wagoner's turn around plan. From an outsider's perspective, he did a good job not alienating the UAW, so hopefully that helps come contract time later this year.
If the new products are as good as we're lead to believe, and if the stars align just right, GM will be able to change this image quicker than we believe.
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From: The Land of Pleasant Living
Wow, so the media onslaught is working.
Right now, domestics sell MORE than 50% of the new vehicle market. But according to this survey, more than 51% of people looking to buy in the next 2 years favor the imports. Meanwhile, the quality/reliability issue is basically nil, fuel efficiency is a wash. Of course, there is often a gap in resale value (though typically the domestics are cheaper to buy in the first place, so I think that gap is smaller than many think). But the gap in resale value is driven by the same erroneous assumptions listed above.
So how is that even though quality has been on the mend for two+ decades, the reputation (according to this study) is STILL slipping?
Could it have ANYTHING to do with the way Toyota is covered in the media vs. the way GM and Ford are covered? Anything at all?
Unreal.
Right now, domestics sell MORE than 50% of the new vehicle market. But according to this survey, more than 51% of people looking to buy in the next 2 years favor the imports. Meanwhile, the quality/reliability issue is basically nil, fuel efficiency is a wash. Of course, there is often a gap in resale value (though typically the domestics are cheaper to buy in the first place, so I think that gap is smaller than many think). But the gap in resale value is driven by the same erroneous assumptions listed above.
So how is that even though quality has been on the mend for two+ decades, the reputation (according to this study) is STILL slipping?
Could it have ANYTHING to do with the way Toyota is covered in the media vs. the way GM and Ford are covered? Anything at all?
Unreal.
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From: The Land of Pleasant Living
That's exactly my point. In my earlier post in this thread, I was discussing that.
People DO read newspapers and watch the news. Or their friends do. So it may just take a few of these irresponsible "news" reports in which they yet again point out the majesty of Toyota and the financial difficulties of GM/Ford. They see a couple of articles like that, and it sticks. As you said, they aren't enthusiasts. They go by what they see and hear from friends, relatives, or what they catch glimpses of on the news or in the paper.
Also, there are LOTS of non-enthusiasts who still do at least some research, but that research is more likely to come from Consumer Reports or Edmunds.com.
Enough little seeds get planted, and all the sudden you've got a large chunk of buyers who simply think Japanese cars are automatically better. Even if they've never driven or owned a domestic themselves.
Non-enthusiast buyer: Hey, check out my new Camry!
More car knowledgable guy: That's nice. Did you take a look at the Impala or Saturn Aura while you were shopping?
NEB: No, I just bought the Camry. My friends say that domestic cars are junk and get crappy fuel economy and that Toyotas rule!
MCKG: :blah:
People DO read newspapers and watch the news. Or their friends do. So it may just take a few of these irresponsible "news" reports in which they yet again point out the majesty of Toyota and the financial difficulties of GM/Ford. They see a couple of articles like that, and it sticks. As you said, they aren't enthusiasts. They go by what they see and hear from friends, relatives, or what they catch glimpses of on the news or in the paper.
Also, there are LOTS of non-enthusiasts who still do at least some research, but that research is more likely to come from Consumer Reports or Edmunds.com.
Enough little seeds get planted, and all the sudden you've got a large chunk of buyers who simply think Japanese cars are automatically better. Even if they've never driven or owned a domestic themselves.
Non-enthusiast buyer: Hey, check out my new Camry!
More car knowledgable guy: That's nice. Did you take a look at the Impala or Saturn Aura while you were shopping?
NEB: No, I just bought the Camry. My friends say that domestic cars are junk and get crappy fuel economy and that Toyotas rule!
MCKG: :blah:
Last edited by SCNGENNFTHGEN; Jan 8, 2007 at 10:59 AM.
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Posts: 143
I agree. It's these little comments, here and there, however subtle they may be, they seep into the minds of the buying public. And I would also have to dissagree with the people saying, people have long memories, IMO that's BS. If so we wouldn't find ourselves repeating histories mistakes all over again, the way we are! The media, by and large, are out to do away with the American manufacturers. And this study proves for me, that they've been quite effective.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
GM is in a good position to start changing people's perceptions. They finally seem to have a good mix of management and product in the hopper (as the two go hand-in-hand).
Just as important, both the shareholders and the UAW seem to be onboard with Wagoner's turn around plan. From an outsider's perspective, he did a good job not alienating the UAW, so hopefully that helps come contract time later this year.
If the new products are as good as we're lead to believe, and if the stars align just right, GM will be able to change this image quicker than we believe.
Just as important, both the shareholders and the UAW seem to be onboard with Wagoner's turn around plan. From an outsider's perspective, he did a good job not alienating the UAW, so hopefully that helps come contract time later this year.
If the new products are as good as we're lead to believe, and if the stars align just right, GM will be able to change this image quicker than we believe.
The more I think about this topic, the more I am convinced that there needs to be a joint effort between GM and Ford (and maybe Daimler/Chrysler too
) to convince the American people that American car companies as a whole are competitive again.Look at the poll we were just discussing... it doesn't really speak about any specific brands, it speaks about "Asian" companies, "European" comapnies, and "American" ones. It doesn't say "Toyota" over "Chevrolet".
The mindset that many have is against American car companies as a whole, so I think that American car companies will need to conjunctively work together to pull out of this funk.
Now, don't ask me how they are going to do it yet... I'm still thinking that one over...
Not saying either one making improvements is not a worthwhile effort - it most definitely is... I'm just saying that any one of the big 2.5 is not going to sway the erroneous perceptions of "American cars have poor quality" alone, and I'd like to see a couter-campaign by the big 2.5 to fight the media's almost constant support of "anything un-American".
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