If anyone has access to the full article or the actual study I think it would be worth the read.

 

Wow, so the media onslaught is working.

Right now, domestics sell MORE than 50% of the new vehicle market. But according to this survey, more than 51% of people looking to buy in the next 2 years favor the imports. Meanwhile, the quality/reliability issue is basically nil, fuel efficiency is a wash. Of course, there is often a gap in resale value (though typically the domestics are cheaper to buy in the first place, so I think that gap is smaller than many think). But the gap in resale value is driven by the same erroneous assumptions listed above.

So how is that even though quality has been on the mend for two+ decades, the reputation (according to this study) is STILL slipping?

Could it have ANYTHING to do with the way Toyota is covered in the media vs. the way GM and Ford are covered? Anything at all?

Unreal.

 

You do realize what a long, angry thread this could become?.....

 

You know the saying..."stereotypes happen for a reason", and don't disappear overnight. You have to get people onto the lot to appreciate this 'new found' quality. Detroit has a 20+ year **** poor record of that.

 

I was under the impression that imports were already outselling domestics at retail (excluding fleet).

 

I know it doesn't happen overnight. But for the last 20 years the cars have gotten much better, not worse. All the recent quality studies have GM/Ford right in the mix with Honda/Toyota.

With all the improving scores and the value for the dollar on the domestics, I'd expect a slow but tangible RISE in their reputation and a corresponding rise in the number of people who wish to buy one. Yet, the numbers (admittedly just from this one study) seem to indicate that the trend is still downward. Why?

Not to mention, it isn't like ToyoHonda were building cars of solid gold while GM/Ford were building steaming piles of crap that simply broke constantly. Certainly not for most of the last generation...

I understand why the Big 3 reputation was hurt in the bad old days, but those bad old days were a while back now.

I swear it doesn't help that every time I see an article that mentions Toyota or GM, it says something to the effect of:

"Toyota has enjoyed a record sales year bolstered by its sterling reputation for quality" along with "GM and Ford continue to suffer against the onslaught from Toyota. Buyers have concerns about fuel efficiency, quality, and reliability of the domestic makes, so many are turning to imports." Rarely does the author bother to follow that up with "while some buyers have such and such concerns, the reality is that [quality scores are close to parity][GM on the whole has as many fuel economy wins as losses when compared to Toyota]" and so forth...

So, if you are reading your daily paper, and you keep seeing "buyers express concerns of quality or fuel efficiency" (but with no actual numbers), what are you going to assume? Probably that there is something wrong with the domestics. The articles just keep bringing up the point, even when it is irrelevant to the discussion. The articles don't seem to mention that these "concerns" that "buyers" are having are often based on old, outdated reputations from 25 years ago. What are the readers going to think when they keep seeing that over and over?

On our internal newsline today, there is an article headlined "Toyota Still Dominant Over Big 3". Really? I'm pretty sure that GM is still the dominant seller in the U.S. (and the world, for that matter). Toyota obviously has more upward momentum right now. But NOWHERE in this article are the actual sales numbers shown. It only showed Toyota's 12% increase vs. last December, and GM's 8% loss. If you didn't know better, from reading this article, you'd likely assume that Toyota is OUTSELLING GM in the U.S. They are gaining, sure. But they are NOT outselling GM. GM outsells Toyota here by over a MILLION vehicles. Somehow that doesn't make it into the article; only percent changes made it. So what is the reader going to conclude from that? Damn, everyone is buying Toyotas, and no one is buying GM cars. Which, of course, is hogwash. But it might just make you want to check out the Toyota store next time you are in the market, and maybe avoid the GM makes since there must be something inferior about them since Toyota is outselling them so badly... See what I mean?

The way the media reports this stuff, it is turning into a self-fulfilling prophecy...

 

I wouldnt doubt that. I wish I had a dollar for every Altima/Maxima I see.

 

Sure GM's products got better, not worse... but so did Toyota's and Honda's. In fact the last 20 years - maybe the last 25-30 years tops is when the foreign cars really pulled away noticably.

It's not that GM wasn't improving - they just weren't improving enough... they were losing ground. And really with only a few exceptions it's only been the last 4 or 5 years that GM vehicles have really started to catch up to the Toyonda regime and these days, at least in 90 day initial quality are almost on par - at least close enough to where the small difference shouldn't be apparent to people unless they've already prejudged the brands before they set eyes on them, which is the problem we're seeing from established reputations.

 

I dont think Toyota has pulled away in quality the last couple years. They have recalled, what, like 5 million vehicles in 2 or 3 years?

 

I can certainly understand the resale value part of it. Just recently I was looking at selling my GM car that's barely more than three years old. Resale was just a tick more than 50% of its original MSRP with the result that I've lost a large chunk of the equity I started with. So I'm keeping the car for a while longer, now that it's on a gentler depreciation slope. Which means I'm not buying a new car, which is bad for GM. I can see how a lot of domestic car owners will be keeping their cars longer before going back into the market since they've lost too much money in the first 2-3 years.

I've always bought my cars, but I'm not sure I'll ever buy another GM. Either I lease to take the risk out of it, or, god forbid, I will go to another brand that will hold some of its value so I can get new cars more often.

 

One thing that might sound crazy, but I honestly believe about GM's perception of cheapness, is the interior. This is where people spend all of their time in a car. GM is notorious for using cheap quality interior materials along with bland designs. GM is still lagging behind in their interiors. So when a buyer sits in a GM car vs some others they get the perception of GM being "cheap" , even if the mechaincals of the car are on spot with the competition. That and the resale values give a huge perception of the entire car being bad.

One thing I see here often is the term perception. Well I personally think GM did not take interiors into account or spend anywhere near enough resources or priotitize it, which in turn worsened the perception of the car as a whole in many peoples eyes even if the reliability was improving. Maybe this is too simple, but for some reason i think was one of the main perception problems with GM. It seems liek th einterior is one of the only things car magazines can still fault GM on these days.
It is great that GM is changing both of these things, by selling less fleet vehicles, and upgrading interior materials.

 

They haven't pulled away in the last 2-3 years... they've lost ground. That's what I was getting at - only for the last 25-30 years have foreign cars really earned their reputation over domestics, and only for the last 4-5 years have domestics been close enough to really not deserve the reputation they get.

Toyota is really helping GM out by putting out some trouble-plagued camry transmissions with this latest design, plus a lot of other small recalled things.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think they're that far back. I know too many people that have troubles with minivans, W-bodies, Colorados, or Cobalts. Granted this is anecdotal evidence, but it just seems that people around here are still having too many troubles with their new GM vehicles.

GM's initial quality may have improved recently, but I honestly don't think the basic engineering that makes for a durable, reliable car is up to par yet.

 

What affordable new car holds its value?

 

Before everyone starts getting crazy, here, please keep in mind that what I posted was simply a few sentence synopsis of the article/study. That’s why I asked that if anyone has access to the actual article or full-study it would be helpful to post it (or a link to it). So…perhaps before everyone starts blasting the study/author they might be well served to at least read a major part of it.

As to Detroit’s recent improvements in the IQS and other J.D. Power studies, J.D. Power itself has said that while GM/Ford have made significant improvements and, while some models have surpassed their non-domestic counterparts in reliability, the domestics haven’t proven yet that they can do so across the board or do so for the long term..

Many people buying today have personal experience with GM/Ford’s lack (or at least a perceived lack) of reliability from 20, 30 or even 40 years ago…with that kind of long history, even several years of J.D. Power studies showing otherwise isn’t going to just erase those experiences from the public’s mind.