It's Official - Exxon Hits Record Profits for Any Corporation Ever
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I'm a little behind - had a couple 70+ hour weeks back to back...:bleh:
I spent 20 minutes looking at some of the biggest corporations mentioned thus far in this thread - the same names topped each and every list of top corporate shareholders - Goldman Sachs, Barclays, Citigroup, etc, etc... I didn't dig deep enough to compare preferred vs. common shares, but I suspect that I wouldn't be surprised. Clearly the bounderies of each "publicly held" company have been blurred.
That's the million dollar question isn't it? "Why don't people want to learn?" I don't know. I have trouble understanding complacency, always have. I do agree with your points. 
I think general populace's lack of appreciation for the written word is a huge affector. Kids are shoved in front of a television from birth and are spoon fed garbage until grade school and beyond. Sure, some of it is pawned off as "educational", and I've found some of it actually is. But why not teach your kids the greatest asset they could possibly ever have: the drive to seek and gather knowledge for themselves. Not just reading, but a desire to read. What's the point of reading a book when they can go out and catch the movie.
It'll take a paradigm shift in thinking for any change to happen on that front.
EDIT: Admittedly, I don't think I have a very good insight into the average individual's aspirations. I can see that people as a whole are driven by possession, particularly where I live. It's consumerism run amuck. No one, not a soul, can argue that the worlds lending and financial institutions have managed to exploit that desire. It's a big, big reason why this country is shackled by a publicly, and privately held dollar amount of debt that mankind has never seen before. I personally have doubts that we were purposefully and deliberately guided in this direction, though at this point it's irrelevant as it's all driven by greed.
Interesting observation I made to my wife the other day... Primer: we live in a Dallas exurb-come-suburb bedroom community of 35,000 with above average income and below average top education levels (vs. national levels). On a main road into the city, our shiney $10M high school football stadium can be seen from a distance. It is certainly an architectural landmark for this town. About two blocks from my house, the public library resides in a 60's era single story building that can't exceed 2000 square feet. Apparently a new library and civic center is in the works. Wow. Nice to see our priorities are in order.
I'll try to keep up. 
Obviously it has NOT moved beyond your expertise - you made a great post.
The large corporations do indeed wield the biggest stick they've ever had in documented history. They are the modern-day "kings" and "emperors", making laws and policy that governs the people of any nation in which they operate. I don't think you'd have a hard time getting any person on the street to see that. But that is typically where the average person's desire to know comes to and end. They don't have the computational capacity to perceive that there are entities behind the big companies, and sometimes there are entities behind the first layer of entities.
The large corporations do indeed wield the biggest stick they've ever had in documented history. They are the modern-day "kings" and "emperors", making laws and policy that governs the people of any nation in which they operate. I don't think you'd have a hard time getting any person on the street to see that. But that is typically where the average person's desire to know comes to and end. They don't have the computational capacity to perceive that there are entities behind the big companies, and sometimes there are entities behind the first layer of entities.
And I agree with you 100% - I struggle almost daily with the question "Why don't people WANT to learn?!?!" In the rural area where I live, pregnancy in the 9th grade, dropping out of school to have babies or work in tobacco fields, and generally poor grades (even if they do stay in school) are commonplace. I see kids wanting to drop out the day they turn 16 (legally they can do it then in NC) to get a job at Burger King (if they work at all). You see kids in their mid 20's living at home like 14 year olds and the families are totally OK with it. 
I see as many grandparents raising kids as parents, and that is sad.
I am at a lack of words to explain it, and I'm sure there are lots of Ph.D's out there making it their life's work to understand it too. But here's my .02 on it... getting an education takes WORK. You have to put effort into it, it doesn't just "happen". One thing I see more as I get older is a lack of motivation and effort on the part of our population. Kids today lay on the couch, text their friends, play video games, and watch 220 channels on the sattelite. They are taught to be lazy. Every day after school, I used to go outside, get on my bike, and ride from house to house or to the local hangout looking for my buddies toplay with. We'd play football or basketball or ride bikes, or something physical for a few hours til our parents got home. We were forced to work in huge gardens. I had to split wood and bring it in the house for the woodstove... if my old man went to load the stove before bed and there was no firewood, I got a beating - simple as that. I had to mow our yard and wash their cars. I had to clean my bedroom, and vacuum the house for my mom (who worked). And I need not think of an allowance.
Those chores were my rent... they paid for my room and board. So given the difference I see between my up-bringing and what I see the majority of kids today getting... I can understand why they don't want to dig into anything or actually read a few books. They'd rather play video games and wait for the movie. And we know the movie will be unbiased and historically acurate whe it does come out.
I see as many grandparents raising kids as parents, and that is sad.I am at a lack of words to explain it, and I'm sure there are lots of Ph.D's out there making it their life's work to understand it too. But here's my .02 on it... getting an education takes WORK. You have to put effort into it, it doesn't just "happen". One thing I see more as I get older is a lack of motivation and effort on the part of our population. Kids today lay on the couch, text their friends, play video games, and watch 220 channels on the sattelite. They are taught to be lazy. Every day after school, I used to go outside, get on my bike, and ride from house to house or to the local hangout looking for my buddies toplay with. We'd play football or basketball or ride bikes, or something physical for a few hours til our parents got home. We were forced to work in huge gardens. I had to split wood and bring it in the house for the woodstove... if my old man went to load the stove before bed and there was no firewood, I got a beating - simple as that. I had to mow our yard and wash their cars. I had to clean my bedroom, and vacuum the house for my mom (who worked). And I need not think of an allowance.
Those chores were my rent... they paid for my room and board. So given the difference I see between my up-bringing and what I see the majority of kids today getting... I can understand why they don't want to dig into anything or actually read a few books. They'd rather play video games and wait for the movie. And we know the movie will be unbiased and historically acurate whe it does come out.
I think general populace's lack of appreciation for the written word is a huge affector. Kids are shoved in front of a television from birth and are spoon fed garbage until grade school and beyond. Sure, some of it is pawned off as "educational", and I've found some of it actually is. But why not teach your kids the greatest asset they could possibly ever have: the drive to seek and gather knowledge for themselves. Not just reading, but a desire to read. What's the point of reading a book when they can go out and catch the movie.
It'll take a paradigm shift in thinking for any change to happen on that front.
EDIT: Admittedly, I don't think I have a very good insight into the average individual's aspirations. I can see that people as a whole are driven by possession, particularly where I live. It's consumerism run amuck. No one, not a soul, can argue that the worlds lending and financial institutions have managed to exploit that desire. It's a big, big reason why this country is shackled by a publicly, and privately held dollar amount of debt that mankind has never seen before. I personally have doubts that we were purposefully and deliberately guided in this direction, though at this point it's irrelevant as it's all driven by greed.
Interesting observation I made to my wife the other day... Primer: we live in a Dallas exurb-come-suburb bedroom community of 35,000 with above average income and below average top education levels (vs. national levels). On a main road into the city, our shiney $10M high school football stadium can be seen from a distance. It is certainly an architectural landmark for this town. About two blocks from my house, the public library resides in a 60's era single story building that can't exceed 2000 square feet. Apparently a new library and civic center is in the works. Wow. Nice to see our priorities are in order.
Having said that, one thing you have got to hand to the world's elite... they are not LAZY. They don't lay in bed all day and watch Oprah or Dr.Phil while eating Hagen-Daz and Pringles. Trying to become the first "Ruler of Earth" takes a lot of hard work.
So please - keep putting your thoughts in. I'm reading EVERY post... looking for a new perspective or something I didn't know too.
So please - keep putting your thoughts in. I'm reading EVERY post... looking for a new perspective or something I didn't know too.
Last edited by WJH'sFormula; Aug 29, 2008 at 02:25 PM.
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From: Toronto, ON Canada
In my "research" I stumbled upon the interview of David Mayer de Rothschild by Alex Jones ( http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...99310483983031 ).
Now, I never heard any interviews by him, but he is labeled by some as a "conspiracy theorist"... (Although if one thinks about, what is a "conspiracy theory", if not just another theory? There are good theories, bad theories, and mediocre theories. Labeling it a conspiracy theory immediately conditions the people to dismiss the theory and reject it.)
A rather interesting discussion / debate about global warming and alleged taxation that results from it, which Alex Jones links to the Rothschilds.
I don't know about the rest of this content, and I don't actually approve of his anger bursts and lashing out, but it's a rather entertaining interview. One thing he is right on about - that's genetically modified organisms. That is a bigger threat to humanity than global warming, as it poses a rather immediate threat (within a generation) to mankind. Bottom line, we are tinkering with something that we know next to nothing about, and yet it makes up the basic building blocks of every living organism, of life itself.
Now, I never heard any interviews by him, but he is labeled by some as a "conspiracy theorist"... (Although if one thinks about, what is a "conspiracy theory", if not just another theory? There are good theories, bad theories, and mediocre theories. Labeling it a conspiracy theory immediately conditions the people to dismiss the theory and reject it.)
A rather interesting discussion / debate about global warming and alleged taxation that results from it, which Alex Jones links to the Rothschilds.
I don't know about the rest of this content, and I don't actually approve of his anger bursts and lashing out, but it's a rather entertaining interview. One thing he is right on about - that's genetically modified organisms. That is a bigger threat to humanity than global warming, as it poses a rather immediate threat (within a generation) to mankind. Bottom line, we are tinkering with something that we know next to nothing about, and yet it makes up the basic building blocks of every living organism, of life itself.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
In my "research" I stumbled upon the interview of David Mayer de Rothschild by Alex Jones ( http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...99310483983031 ).
Now, I never heard any interviews by him, but he is labeled by some as a "conspiracy theorist"... (Although if one thinks about, what is a "conspiracy theory", if not just another theory? There are good theories, bad theories, and mediocre theories. Labeling it a conspiracy theory immediately conditions the people to dismiss the theory and reject it.)
A rather interesting discussion / debate about global warming and alleged taxation that results from it, which Alex Jones links to the Rothschilds.
I don't know about the rest of this content, and I don't actually approve of his anger bursts and lashing out, but it's a rather entertaining interview. One thing he is right on about - that's genetically modified organisms. That is a bigger threat to humanity than global warming, as it poses a rather immediate threat (within a generation) to mankind. Bottom line, we are tinkering with something that we know next to nothing about, and yet it makes up the basic building blocks of every living organism, of life itself.
Now, I never heard any interviews by him, but he is labeled by some as a "conspiracy theorist"... (Although if one thinks about, what is a "conspiracy theory", if not just another theory? There are good theories, bad theories, and mediocre theories. Labeling it a conspiracy theory immediately conditions the people to dismiss the theory and reject it.)
A rather interesting discussion / debate about global warming and alleged taxation that results from it, which Alex Jones links to the Rothschilds.
I don't know about the rest of this content, and I don't actually approve of his anger bursts and lashing out, but it's a rather entertaining interview. One thing he is right on about - that's genetically modified organisms. That is a bigger threat to humanity than global warming, as it poses a rather immediate threat (within a generation) to mankind. Bottom line, we are tinkering with something that we know next to nothing about, and yet it makes up the basic building blocks of every living organism, of life itself.
And that's precisely the reason why I've changed my attitude towards global warming. I'm only able to do that by keeping an open mind. We in Australia are being asked to accept a proposed carbon tax. We sheeples in Australia aren't clever enough to be independent thinkers... so we are copying what's basically happening in Europe which has already introduced this carbon tax. It's definitely a global tax being proposed but I'm suspicious about where this tax is going to and what it's being used for.
I know some of it is going directly into the pockets of the Rothschilds but not sure how much exactly. However, I recently watched a 10min video of an elderly, grey haired, Jewish lady who condemns the motives of the Rothschilds and their allies... and suggests that up to 40% of taxes paid to the government go the way of the Rothschilds. I don't know if that figure is accurate as I'm still trying to find some more research material. But it's definitely frightening if true, and a total waste of our hard work and our values!
EDIT: Found the link to the video! Here it is... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moMu94lRkEg She makes mention of the 'Warburgs' and the 'Morgans' being close associates of the Rothschilds.
Last edited by SSbaby; Aug 29, 2008 at 10:43 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
Just fired it up this afternoon, but have missed orders to a few OEMs - totally NOT GOOD. Also spent the last 2 days running prototype parts for Nissan. 
I'm so frazzled, I took next Tuesday off to extend my weekend with the family.
I spent 20 minutes looking at some of the biggest corporations mentioned thus far in this thread - the same names topped each and every list of top corporate shareholders - Goldman Sachs, Barclays, Citigroup, etc, etc... I didn't dig deep enough to compare preferred vs. common shares, but I suspect that I wouldn't be surprised. Clearly the bounderies of each "publicly held" company have been blurred.
I invite anyone to do the investigation into who really owns any publicly-traded company. After getting through the insiders and searching the shares distribution, you will be amazed how the same 5 to 7 banks keep popping up. Their secret? Buy until you have controlling interest, but no more. Let peeons and upstarts finance the big hunk of business and take all the risk. They don't "own" it, they simply control it.
Let's pick on Exxon...
Someone specifically defended Exxon in this thread because they are "publicly traded".
Let's see how public they really are...
% of Shares Held by All Insider and 5% Owners = 0%
% of Shares Held by Institutional & Mutual Fund Owners = 52%
% of Float Held by Institutional & Mutual Fund Owners = 52%
Number of Institutions Holding Shares = 1651
OK, so now we see that if we add up all the shares held by insiders and individuals, and divide that total into the total shares outstanding, then round to the nearest integer, we get......... 0%. Even the CEO has no voting clout. Does that startle anyone?
Who are the top holders in Exxon?
Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd 235,830,028 shares, 4.54%, $20,783,700,367, as of 30-Jun-08
STATE STREET CORPORATION 178,112,360 3.43% $15,697,042,286 30-Jun-08
VANGUARD GROUP, INC. (THE) 165,490,473 3.19% $14,584,675,385 30-Jun-08
Bank of New York Mellon Corporation 89,714,104 1.73% $7,906,503,985 30-Jun-08
FMR LLC 84,589,254 1.63% $7,454,850,955 30-Jun-08
AXA 83,660,456 1.61% $7,372,995,987 30-Jun-08
BANK OF AMERICA CORPORATION 74,126,153 1.43% $6,532,737,863 30-Jun-08
JP MORGAN CHASE & COMPANY 72,786,433 1.40% $6,414,668,340 30-Jun-08
NORTHERN TRUST CORPORATION 65,925,596 1.27% $5,810,022,775 30-Jun-08
PRICE (T.ROWE) ASSOCIATES INC 45,088,180 .87% $3,973,621,303 30-Jun-08
The above data comes from here.
OK, so Barclays UK holds 5% right? NOW - who owns Barclays?
% of Shares Held by All Insider and 5% Owners = 26%
% of Shares Held by Institutional & Mutual Fund Owners = 3%
% of Float Held by Institutional & Mutual Fund Owners = 4%
Number of Institutions Holding Shares = 227
This data comes from here.
Ahhh- Hahhh! NOW we see that 26% of this company is held by private parties and individuals! We're getting somewhere! So who might those individuals be?
Ummm... Uh-Oh.
The message says "Insider Roster - Get Insider Roster for: There is no data available for BCS. "
This data comes from here.
I'm like daaayummmm! Bummer! It looks like someone doesn't want to divulge who owns 26% of a $70-billion investment firm. Whazzup with that? Wealthy people not wanting to be known?
Fluke? Look here...
Look here...
Also, notice that they only accounted for 26+3+4= 33% of the shares of the company. Now if all insiders own 26%, and all other funds and institutional owners hold a total of 7% in firm and floating shares... where's the rest of it?!?!
And guess what else? Barclays is a SMALL player in the international banking market - ranking out of the top 10 completely...
Rank Company Shareholder equity ($m) -
1 Bank of America 131720 $mln -
2 Citigroup 119783 $mln -
3 JPMorgan Chase 115790 $mln -
4 HSBC 114928 $mln -
5 Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group 81,940 $mln -
6 Royal Bank of Scotland Group 78,730 $mln -
7 ING Group 78,088 $mln -
8 Crédit Agricole 77,462 $mln -
9 Wachovia Corporation 69,716 $mln -
10 BNP Paribas 67,378 $mln -
The data comes from here...
Anyone else want to try this?
Pick a big company - any company any business - and see who owns the shares. I'll bet you see at least one of the banks above as a major holder. Then go up the ladder one more rung and see who owns the bank. Or skip the first part and go straight after one of these listed above. I know 5 families that can be linked to most of the banks above already.
I'll try to keep up.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
In my "research" I stumbled upon the interview of David Mayer de Rothschild by Alex Jones ( http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...99310483983031 ).
Now, I never heard any interviews by him, but he is labeled by some as a "conspiracy theorist"... (Although if one thinks about, what is a "conspiracy theory", if not just another theory? There are good theories, bad theories, and mediocre theories. Labeling it a conspiracy theory immediately conditions the people to dismiss the theory and reject it.)
A rather interesting discussion / debate about global warming and alleged taxation that results from it, which Alex Jones links to the Rothschilds.
I don't know about the rest of this content, and I don't actually approve of his anger bursts and lashing out, but it's a rather entertaining interview. One thing he is right on about - that's genetically modified organisms. That is a bigger threat to humanity than global warming, as it poses a rather immediate threat (within a generation) to mankind. Bottom line, we are tinkering with something that we know next to nothing about, and yet it makes up the basic building blocks of every living organism, of life itself.
Now, I never heard any interviews by him, but he is labeled by some as a "conspiracy theorist"... (Although if one thinks about, what is a "conspiracy theory", if not just another theory? There are good theories, bad theories, and mediocre theories. Labeling it a conspiracy theory immediately conditions the people to dismiss the theory and reject it.)
A rather interesting discussion / debate about global warming and alleged taxation that results from it, which Alex Jones links to the Rothschilds.
I don't know about the rest of this content, and I don't actually approve of his anger bursts and lashing out, but it's a rather entertaining interview. One thing he is right on about - that's genetically modified organisms. That is a bigger threat to humanity than global warming, as it poses a rather immediate threat (within a generation) to mankind. Bottom line, we are tinkering with something that we know next to nothing about, and yet it makes up the basic building blocks of every living organism, of life itself.
I maintain that we must first educate the public as to what is going on. There is NO WAY the meek of the earth can wage a war against the wealthy controllers if we are too busy fighting amongst ourselves. That's actually part of the elite's plan - to keep us busy with ourselves so we pay them no attention while they ransack the earth beneath our very feet... hence the media (er, um, make that the "electronic multi-channel moving picture education box" according to most of the population on earth). So many people are totally bamfoozled by the media and heresay - which is exactly what the powerful and knowledgeable parties want. like the Bill Gates thing. Or the Walton family. OMG... that's a riot! Answer me this... how did we (America) begin our demoralization of Iraqi resistance immediately after the attack on Baghdad? LEAFLETS. MEDIA. Why? Because it WORKS.
I prefer to "enlighten" people with pure fact - bits and pieces - and let people draw their own conclusions. Motivate them to search and learn on their own, and not simply take my word or brief postings as any gospel. More often than not, they are capable of making a good decision if they have facts, not some half-truths prepared by a journalist who is no more educated than the subjects he is broadcasting to or writing for. I see this EVERY DAY in the company I work for. They decide who to lay off or what lines to sell off or what other business to buy - but they NEVER tell the people on the floor until it's coming in the door or they are being walked out. They want the hourly people to simply be dumb and keep doing what they were hired to do until told not to. That same "need to know" mentality that is embedded in power reaches all the way to the world's elite... who are doing the exact same thing.
As I said earlier in the thread, I do not like to bring religion, race, creed, or culture into a discussion about the worlds elite and their control of everything going on. Alex is a bit more "unrefined", and I think that has turned a lot of people against him - even when he is trying to point out something true.
I will say this though... Alex is on track. He has uncovered many of these hidden truths, and the facts he gives (between rants and screaming sessions that repeat themselves every few moments to indoctrinate you subliminally with his catch phrases) are generally "proveable" or certifiable if you chase them down.
As for cloning and genetic manipulation - I'm for it as long as I know it's being done by moral people for the benefit of science to fight cancer, regrow organs or limbs, or any other cause beneficial to humankind. Do I think this is what's driving it? Unfortunately I don't.
I agree with your position about not knowing extent of the Pandora's Box we are opening. We MUST be careful and not take our eye off this ball.
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From: Roch, NY
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From: Roch, NY
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Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
In regards to the carbon emissions tax... I ask myself this basic question:
Why can't/don't we just plant more trees to 'offset the imbalance' in CO2 levels?
Why is a tax being proposed and how would it solve anything?
And, the methane emitted from cows is said to be a major cause of global warming according to various media reports (this, I don't personally believe) but if that is so, why is this 'problem' being overlooked?
I smell BS all round. As I said, that's why I've stopped believing the hype and no, I didn't see a new tax coming (to solve the climate change problem?) either. How ridiculous!
Why can't/don't we just plant more trees to 'offset the imbalance' in CO2 levels?
Why is a tax being proposed and how would it solve anything?
And, the methane emitted from cows is said to be a major cause of global warming according to various media reports (this, I don't personally believe) but if that is so, why is this 'problem' being overlooked?
I smell BS all round. As I said, that's why I've stopped believing the hype and no, I didn't see a new tax coming (to solve the climate change problem?) either. How ridiculous!
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,214
From: City of Champions, MA, USA
In regards to the carbon emissions tax... I ask myself this basic question:
Why can't/don't we just plant more trees to 'offset the imbalance' in CO2 levels?
Why is a tax being proposed and how would it solve anything?
And, the methane emitted from cows is said to be a major cause of global warming according to various media reports (this, I don't personally believe) but if that is so, why is this 'problem' being overlooked?
I smell BS all round. As I said, that's why I've stopped believing the hype and no, I didn't see a new tax coming (to solve the climate change problem?) either. How ridiculous!
Why can't/don't we just plant more trees to 'offset the imbalance' in CO2 levels?
Why is a tax being proposed and how would it solve anything?
And, the methane emitted from cows is said to be a major cause of global warming according to various media reports (this, I don't personally believe) but if that is so, why is this 'problem' being overlooked?
I smell BS all round. As I said, that's why I've stopped believing the hype and no, I didn't see a new tax coming (to solve the climate change problem?) either. How ridiculous!
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,402
From: Toronto, ON Canada
SSbaby, you asked how the carbon tax money could be going to the elites if it's collected by the governments... It's not exactly the money they're looking for, it's the control.
Just look at how hopelessly in debt the US is. It is one of the tactics of the bankers, to put a country hopelessly in debt. Once the country cannot repay its debt, it leaves itself open to the will of the bankers, less it risk becoming a third world country slum.
The government thus collects this carbon tax. All taxes are to take wealth away from citizens, and transfer it to the government. The government is already in debt and owes its prospects to the bankers, the bankers thus controlling the government and the wealth (taxes) they collect.
On the subject of global warming... I personally don't believe the changes that we're observing are strictly man-made. I believe the natural cycles have a greater role to play in this than mankind. It would be good if pollution and illegal materials dumping could be stopped/addressed by this, however, that is not so. POwerful corporations will continue to do their dirty business, such as exporting all the waste to third world countries for disposal. The fact that people will get taxed on certain things will have negligible impact on the CO2 levels.
What sets alarms in my head is the ferocity with which man-made global warming is defended as a fact. This is a recent phenomenon that's being discussed in the last, oh, no more than 10 years, and picked up more so in the last few. And everyone is already convinced that it's a fact? Come on! Anything that is defended with such passion and ferocity is akin to sectarianism. It discourages questioning, it discourages scientific research, it discourages personal opinion. Yes, there are many, many scientists who agree with global warming. There are also quite a number who disagree. Let's review all facts, let's publish all studies and findings, and then let's form a consensus.
One of the dangers that Alex Jones pointed out is introducing this material as factual to kids. They basically grow up feeling that global warming is a fact. They don't question it because it has been part of their grade 2 curriculum, no doubt strengthened over the school years by yet additional textbooks and related material. It's indoctrination. It's too close to propaganda, a propaganda that is extremely cleverly designed not to look like one.
Most of the truth eventually gets out. Some of it in our generation, some of it in the decades and centuries to come. I hope that future generations could learn from this, that is, if they will be allowed. It is up to us to make sure they have that chance.
Just look at how hopelessly in debt the US is. It is one of the tactics of the bankers, to put a country hopelessly in debt. Once the country cannot repay its debt, it leaves itself open to the will of the bankers, less it risk becoming a third world country slum.
The government thus collects this carbon tax. All taxes are to take wealth away from citizens, and transfer it to the government. The government is already in debt and owes its prospects to the bankers, the bankers thus controlling the government and the wealth (taxes) they collect.
On the subject of global warming... I personally don't believe the changes that we're observing are strictly man-made. I believe the natural cycles have a greater role to play in this than mankind. It would be good if pollution and illegal materials dumping could be stopped/addressed by this, however, that is not so. POwerful corporations will continue to do their dirty business, such as exporting all the waste to third world countries for disposal. The fact that people will get taxed on certain things will have negligible impact on the CO2 levels.
What sets alarms in my head is the ferocity with which man-made global warming is defended as a fact. This is a recent phenomenon that's being discussed in the last, oh, no more than 10 years, and picked up more so in the last few. And everyone is already convinced that it's a fact? Come on! Anything that is defended with such passion and ferocity is akin to sectarianism. It discourages questioning, it discourages scientific research, it discourages personal opinion. Yes, there are many, many scientists who agree with global warming. There are also quite a number who disagree. Let's review all facts, let's publish all studies and findings, and then let's form a consensus.
One of the dangers that Alex Jones pointed out is introducing this material as factual to kids. They basically grow up feeling that global warming is a fact. They don't question it because it has been part of their grade 2 curriculum, no doubt strengthened over the school years by yet additional textbooks and related material. It's indoctrination. It's too close to propaganda, a propaganda that is extremely cleverly designed not to look like one.
Most of the truth eventually gets out. Some of it in our generation, some of it in the decades and centuries to come. I hope that future generations could learn from this, that is, if they will be allowed. It is up to us to make sure they have that chance.
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From: Michigan's left coast
Don't forget that most public companies own substantial chunks of their own shares. If I decide to go public, I can decide to offer 90% of my shares in an IPO, or just 10%. How much I sell to the public determines how much "real wealth" I have (in the form of cash that I accepted for the shares offered), and how much I retain in "paper wealth" in the form of retained shares.
That's certainly not to say that you're not on to something, though!
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,400
From: Michigan's left coast
When the price of oil was $100 per barrel, we paid $1.00 per litre. When the price of oil shot up to $147, the price of a litre of gasoline went to $1.36. For a $47 jump in the price of oil, the pump prices went up 35¢.
When the price of oil dropped $30, the price at the pump went down only 10¢, down to $1.26.
So, I ask, who of you still says that it's the free market that's regulating the costs of gas?
When the price of oil dropped $30, the price at the pump went down only 10¢, down to $1.26.
So, I ask, who of you still says that it's the free market that's regulating the costs of gas?
Now, the "supply" part of the above statement is something that can be manipulated by the refineries in order to maximize profits, and obviously this is done on a regular and continuous basis. If diesel prices are up because of the inflexible demand of its users, then refineries will adjust their process to yield more diesel and less gasoline - so both prices might very well increase! It's not a zero-sum game, and the refineries are very good at playing this optimization game.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
I'm not being a smartie... but there was a kid at school who lit his farts with a cigarette lighter and on one occasion nearly set himself alight! I'm not kidding!!!
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Now, I never heard any interviews by him, but he is labeled by some as a "conspiracy theorist"... (Although if one thinks about, what is a "conspiracy theory", if not just another theory? There are good theories, bad theories, and mediocre theories. Labeling it a conspiracy theory immediately conditions the people to dismiss the theory and reject it.)
If anybody is at all interested in the historical significance of the various points discussed, you might find this link quite interesting... http://www.theconspiracyexplained.com/
Last edited by SSbaby; Aug 31, 2008 at 09:05 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
From my readings, it's extraordinary to learn that the private entity that is the Federal Reserve has never been independenty audited and we're talking around 100 years!
The Federal Reserve prints its own money. Money that is worth only the paper it's written on and essentially worthless (i.e. it is not backed by anything e.g. silver or gold). Loans it to the govt with interest. The govt pays that money back... through taxes.
For an entity that has a license to print 'money', how is it that it's never been audited? Where else is the printed 'money' heading and how are the other banks involved?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDN7yFCgm3M
The Federal Reserve prints its own money. Money that is worth only the paper it's written on and essentially worthless (i.e. it is not backed by anything e.g. silver or gold). Loans it to the govt with interest. The govt pays that money back... through taxes.
For an entity that has a license to print 'money', how is it that it's never been audited? Where else is the printed 'money' heading and how are the other banks involved?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDN7yFCgm3M
Last edited by SSbaby; Sep 2, 2008 at 08:16 PM.
