I'm sure there is more power in the Coyote than Ford is sending out the door in the Mustang GT. But like the 4.6L DOHC engines in the Cobra and Mach 1 some mods even in the large Mustang aftermarket community were not worth the cost. Heads/cam. So how much power can the average gear head expect to gain over the stock HP with intake, exhaust, under drive pullies and tuning?
The car already has what look to be header like exhaust manifolds. And it already revs to 7K and with 11:1 compression it's not like this engine is a prime candidate for boost. Nitrous is always an option.
I'm not saying this engine is tapped out but with specs like that it’s easy to see that Ford has the Coyote in a higher state of tune than the larger displacement rivals.

Ford really only picked up 21ci from the 4.6L or 7% and yet gained roughly 92 to 102 rated HP or 28 – 32% more power from the last 4.6L DOHC engines in the Mach 1 or Cobra. Even at 302ci it's spotting the Hemi 5.7L 43ci or 14% and the LS3 by 74ci or 24% displacement.

Comparing the performance of the 2010 Camaro SS to the 2011 Mustang GT is one thing but the Coyote while much improved is still at a great disadvantage to the LS3.

 

Okay then. Well I look forward to hearing more about it then.

That one will be the Boss 302?

 

That's the one...

 

5.0 Mustang has a 19 page feature on this engine.

 

How is it at a disadvantage? It's clearly leaving the factory with a "better" tune than the LS3. Advantage, 5.0L. Ford chooses to make their power with more cams and more valves, GM decides to do it with more cubes. By your logic, the arguement could be made that the LS3 is at a great disadvantage to the Coyote due to it only having 1 cam, 16 valves and a more conservative tune.

 

No replacement for displacement. Plain and simple. In normally aspirated engines designed for performance like these the 5.0L must put out a higher specific output to achieve a similar level of power to the 6.2L.

 

Agreed! Thats why Ford needs a tall deck version of this motor so they can squeeze out another 2 liters of displacement

 

The "No replacement for displacement" adage is nothing more than a slogan to hang your hat on. It doesn't mean jack, just like hp/liter or supper high revs. The only thing that matters is how the product performs. If the 5.0 is matching the LS3 then it is essentially the same thing to the public. It doesn't matter if the LS3 has a larger displacement (some will actually see that as a problem) and it doesn't matter if the 5.0 has DOHC (some will see that as a problem).

Again the only thing that matters is what can the product do and at what cost. Ford has figured out a way to do OHV V8s in relatively high volume while GM chose to continue with OHV V8s. They are different ways of achieving the same goal and so long as the product performs up to expectations and is profitable at the price sold, then it is a success.

Lets move beyond this argument, please.

 

I think they were talking more about potential for the engine outside of the stock form. I would tend to agree that the LS3 has the advantage in that realm, with more gains to be made simply. Based on assumptions, of course, along with the fact that the LSx engines have a robust aftermarket with years of exposure for development.

I think 99SilverSS is saying that showroom stock to showroom stock, the 5.0L will likely line up nicely against the LS3 Camaro, so the end result to the customers is the same. But for the customer who plans to modify the engine, the speculation is that the LS3 will be more responsive to some basic mods.

 

Some info to chew on.

4.6L to 5.0L (4.95L) = 315hp to 412hp and roughly a 0.35L or 21 cubic inch increase. That equates to a 7.5% increase in displacement and engine power increased by roughly 100hp or 32%.


LS1 to LS2 = 350hp to 400hp and roughly a 0.3L increase in size or 18 cubic inches. This was a 5.2% increase in displacement and engine power increased by 50hp or 14.3%.

LS2 to LS3 = 400hp to ~430hp and roughly a 0.2L increase in size or 12 cubic inches. This was a 3.3% increase in a displacement and engine power increased by 30hp or 7.5%.

So if you look at the difference from the LS1 to the LS3, both engines renowed for there great response to bolt-ons and heads/cam, it looks like this:

LS1 to LS3 = 350hp to 430hp. A 0.5L or 30 cubic inch increase in displacement, which is an 8.7% increase in displacement and an increase of only 80hp or 23%.


This is really fuzzy math here and it is not comparing apples to apples as the SOHC/DOHC engine in the Mustang is certainly not the same as the OHV engine in the Camaro.

However, it does seem to show how impressive the power increase, relative to displaement increase, of the new 5.0L is compared to the 4.6L.

It is certainly far more power than GM has achieved from similar displacement increases with their LSX engines.

What does that mean? Hard to say. Maybe nothing. But it could mean the 5.0L is in a higher state of tune and will not benefit from bolt-on's the same as the LSX engines. It could also be largely the result of switching from SOHC to DOHC heads, but then again, the Mach 1 didn't make much more than 315hp which may point more to the new head design itself.

Only time will tell and I am looking forward to it.

 

If that is the argument then why isn't everyone wishing for a 2.0 Turbo with low boost? Easier to get big power gains out of and to be honest they generally get better fuel economy.

I also don't think manufacturers should concern themselves with the 2-4% of the buying public that will go out and instantly void the warranty on the 2nd biggest purchase of their lives.

 

Well, it is nice to give them at least a little consideration, at least on vehicles that are aimed directly at that market (pony cars are probably the most modded of all vehicle classes, save maybe for full size trucks). But still, I don't think they are really saying that Ford has made a mistake by offering this sweet new engine.

For those who do wish to make bigger power without breaking the bank, however, it would seem that the LS3 is the better option (at least for now). Of course, that also means buying the better looking / sexier but somewhat heavier, more claustrophobic Camaro.

So it's all about priorities!

EDIT: Oh, and a turbo 2.0L is gonna take a little more money and effort to reach 500 hp than will an LS3. I'm sure the stock turbo won't get you there. And when you do get to that kind of power, it isn't going to have anywhere near the driveability of a mildly cammed LS3.

 

Lets also remember that the Camaro costs more and has more complex suspension (read: more expensive to modify).

Who said anything about reaching a specific number? I thought we were talking about % gains over stock with minimal/little $$$ investment. If all peopel cared about was reaching a specific HP they could likely do more for less money buying used and modifying it (turbo 5.0 Fox or FI LT1). Also remember that 2.0T is going to be wrapped in a lighter, more nimble package than the 3800 lbs V8 Camaro and doesn't need 500 hp to reach similar times at the track.

 

One thing that was brought to my attention here was the fact that FPV here will be running a S/C on the Coyote to compete with the HSV LS3s. Look out for it around June!

What this could imply is that rumors of a hyper-Coyote engine making 470hp seem a stretch, otherwise, you'd think that FPV would use such an engine instead of going to the trouble of adding a S/C to it to make it perform as it should.

 

trying to figure out the powerband of a 470 hp 5.0L just makes it seem out of reach in a low(ish) priced car. BMW's 4.0L V8 in the M3 makes 414 hp @ 8300 rpm. the 5.0L V8 makes 412 hp @ 6500 rpm. I hate talking in hp/L but the 103 hp/L engine peaks at 8300 and the 82 hp/L engine peaks at 6500. doing ricer math the 470 hp 5.0L would be about 94 hp/L, about smack dab in the middle. safe to say a power peak around 7400 rpm would be needed? I just don't see a production V8 in a $30,000 car revving out over 7500 rpm. its gonna have to have a stout bottom end. not to mention the piston speeds of a ~3.6" stroke at 7500 rpm is pretty high. that is right there with what an LS7 with its 4" stroke is hitting at 7000 rpm and look at the bottom end that needs. one that is NOT cheap to mass produce.

/ricer math

my opinion: this engine won't see over 450 hp. I doubt it'll be able to match the power of GM's upcoming genV V8s. Ford has engineers much more intelligent than I am. they aren't gonna sit still and watch GM steamroll them in power. I want to know what they have in the pipeline!