True, there's a 2000 dollar rebate out right now. Which if applied makes the comparison I made above, 370 bucks in the Impala's favor.

Regardless - I'm not seeing how Impala is such an 'obvious' value compared to Camry...

 

I think the 3.9 DOD would be a better comparison price and level wise than V8 SS model.

 

Camry vs. Impala... here we go:

First, let's start with the base cars.

Camry - ~$21,080
Impala - ~$22,000

Engine:
Camry - 2.4 liter DOHC 4-cylinder (VVT), 158hp/161lb. ft.
Impala - 3.5 liter OHV 6-cylinder (VVT + E85), 211hp/214 lb. ft.

Transmission:
Camry - 5spd automatic
Impala - 4 spd automatic

Economy:
Camry - 24/33
Impala - 21/31

Equipment the Impala has, that the Camry does not:
Driver Information Center (not available on this Camry)
RKE (not available on this Camry)
Onstar (Optional on Impala (free at first), not available on Camry)
XM Radio (Optional on Impala, not available on Camry)
Power Driver's Seat (not available on this Camry)
Remote Vehicle Starter (Optional on Impala, $30 - not available on this Camry)
Engine Block Heater (Optional on Impala, $50 - not available on this Camry)
40/20/40 Split Bench Seat (Optional on Impala, $150 - not available on this Camry)


Equipment the Camry has that the Impala does not:
ABS ($600 Option on Impala)
Telescoping Steering Wheel (not available on Impala)
Overhead Maplights and Storage Bin
Driver's Knee Airbag (not available on Impala)
Rear Cupholders (not available on this Impala)

To level the cars out, charge the Impala $600 for ABS and you get:
Camry - ~$21,080
Impala - ~$22,600


To examine it reasonably, actual transaction prices should be taken into account, but I'm comfortable with the idea that the V6 (plus FIFTY horsepower), the content differences and the physically larger car are worth approximately $1600 more.

There are two significant issues on the Impala's side - it needs a 6-speed automatic BADLY and ABS SHOULD BE STANDARD. The knee airbags on the Camry are most likely due to a crash-testing issue with the knee bolsters. Since GM tends to keep knee bolsters completely away from a driver/passenger, I'm comfortable with the Impala not having them.

The Camry's 4-cylinder is little short of a turd, and the car is honestly a loss leader of which very few are built. Impala LS's like this are available all over the place.

I believe the $$$ difference evaporates completely when actual transaction prices are taken into account.

For the top-line cars, a case can be made that the Impala SS is just a world of difference away from ANY Camry, so we could compare fully optioned LTZ Impala vs. a top-line Camry.

Which is what I will do next...

 

The base Camry (CE) is $18,270. Which model are you getting to get 21,080? Probably the LE (next step up) + dest?

FWIW, the Camry doesn't have 40/20/40, it has 40/60 except on the XLE which is 40/20/40, and XM is optional on the Camry too, but is a DIO.

RKE = remote keyless entry? It's standard on the LE.

And interesting comparison. Again, it doesn't look like Impala is a bad value per se, but I don't see the 'solid' value factor.

 

Nope, can't build your own CE... the attached information being taken right off Toyota's website (Build Your Own) for a 2007 Camry LE 4-cylinder 5 speed automatic.

Correct.

DIO's don't count.

I can have a GM dealer put a supercharger on a Cavalier, the amount of stuff a dealer can put on any car is just downright silly and there's no real way to keep track of it all.

Correct.


Of course you don't... you think a $21,000 mid-size car with a 158hp 4-cylinder is reasonable... as opposed to... well... laughable.

My MOTORCYCLE out-powers this car.

PS -
I imagine that a reasonable case can be made that the correct car to compare to a CE level Camry is actually a Malibu and not an Impala - again, the Impala is a considerably larger car - with the Impala slotting in against the higher-content Camrys.

An LT Malibu carries the 3.5 liter V6 as an option (2LT) and slots in at an equivalent price point with it, so you're not stuck with the Ecotec.

 

But you said that RKE wasn't available on the Camry LE. It's standard. Wait... is Pacer... w-w-w-wa-rong again? Is this like twice in the past couple weeks? What is this, a record or something???

Sat radio is probably one of the most common DIOs available with any manufacturer. In the end, to me, XM is still an option. The factory pre-wires the cars to where literally all it takes is a dealer tech or the owner of the vehicle about 5 minutes to plug it in and activate it. I did it on my Audi by buying a used XM tuner for 180 bucks compared to 400 from the dealer.. it was downright silly how plug-and play it was. To call it an "installation" would be, to me, like telling sombody you "installed" gasoline in your car.

If you cared about power you probably wouldn't be considering the 4-cylinder, now would ya?
You might consider it equally crazy that the base engine in a 30k+ dollar 3-series, IS250, C230, A4, or CTS only make 50ish ponies more, and they're supposed to be 'sporty' vehicles? Or would you say that's a silly statement - they all have significantly more powerful motors available for those who want the extra power?
Because that's what I'd say.

You gonna do it or should I?

 

2007 Impala LTZ 1LZ (options added to make even comparison: 1LZ package which includes Bose w/6-disc, auto-diming rearview mirror, homelink, and dual power heated seats), plus sunroof. Options left off not available on Camry: engine block heater: $50
$28,720 w/ destination

2007 Toyota Camry XLE V6 (options added to make even comparison: JBL Premium 440-watt stereo w/ 6-disc). Options left off, not available on Impala: Navigation system, Smart Key System, Vehicle Stability Control.
$29,100 w/ destination

Advantage Impala:
$380 cheaper MSRP as configured
17" wheels (Camry SE has 17", XLE only 16")
XM Radio
Onstar available (first year free)
Remote start
(note: DIC no longer an advantage for impala - XLE Camry has one)
(note: 40/20/40 no longer an advantage for impala - XLE Camry has as well)


Advantage Camry:

Power: 268hp Camry vs 233hp Impala
Fuel economy: 2MPG better fuel economy: 22/31 compared to 20/29 in Impala
6-speed automatic compared to 4-speed in Impala
Knee airbags
Powertrain warranty is 5yrs/60k miles, impala is 3yr 36k.
Telescoping steering wheel
MP3 playback on CD player
(rear cup holders no longer an advantage for Camry)
dual-zone automatic climate control
Climate vents for rear passengers
Cimate control features negative ion generation
Bluetooth
retractable rear sunshade
Auto-up w/pinch protection on driver's window
Rear reading lights
Dimmable vanity mirrors

 

This is fun

 

I'm working, I'll get to it...

 

Regarding the 2000 dollar rebate that's currently available on Impala:

Consider that there is roughly a 6.2% markup between Impala's invoice price and its MSRP, whereas the Camry has a 12.7% markup between its invoice and MSRP. Thus, assuming you can negotiate either vehicle down to invoice price, the Camry discussed in the comparison has an invoice price roughly ~1400 BELOW the Impala's invoice price. Meaning in the end that 2000 dollar rebate is going to put you at a 600 dollar advantage after it's all said and done.

Again, this is making the assumption that you can negotiate both down to invoice - I know it's possible to do on the Camry but likely quite a bit more difficult than it is on the Impala.

 

Is your assumption that it is likely quite a bit more difficult to negotiate an Impala down to invoice because it helps your argument, or because of some other reason?

 

Nope, but now my assumption is that your reading comprehension kinda sucks and it's making you look like an *** in this case.

I said:
I know it's possible to do on the Camry but likely quite a bit more difficult than it is on the Impala.
This means I think it's realistically more difficult/PITA to negotiate the Camry.

Now if I had said:
I know it's possible to do on the Camry but it's likely quite a bit more difficult on the Impala.
Then that would have the opposite meaning, and would serve to say that the Impala is more difficult to negotiate down.

See?

 

Hmmm, glad to hear when I misread you it makes me look like an ***.

It was just a simple question.

 

It was a loaded question - a question meant to 'imply' that I was making an (obviously false) assumption, simply to suit my arguement. That's the whole '***' part. Then again maybe you just 'happened' to be 'innocently' asking that question with no implications at all. In that case, I apologize. But I still have reservations to believe that was the case here.

Anyhow... you seem to have kinda skipped over the discussion and hand and focused on a statement I didn't even make. Back to the real meat of it.

 

Subtle.

Sort of like how you left the SRX interior thread after misreading JakeRobb's post, eh?