Target the safety angle for GM.

Make it safety with luxury, performance and quality...

How to do such a thing... hmmm...

Well, for starters, how about AWD across the board? While the LeCrosse mentioned in a previous thread with the V8 will be nifty, it's kind of old hat when a Chevrolet has been powered by the same motor for a couple of years, and a Pontiac has it too...

This gets a little bit into GM's brand overlap problem though...

Lemme give an example:

A full-book Impala SS stickers for $30,420.
A zero-options Cadillac CTS stickers for $29,990.

Where do I fit a Buick and a Pontiac in between those two? They're roughly equivalent in size, a case can be made that the Cadillac has a raft full of features that the Chevrolet does not have, but the Chevrolet has several tangible advantages:

1) The V8 solidly out-powers the 2.8 liter V6 in the Cadillac.

2) The seats in the Chevrolet are genuine dead cow... the Cadillac is using something they refuse to call vinyl in the base CTS's... but it ain't leather... it just looks like leather and is synthetic (Nauga?)... I call that vinyl, but I'm behind the times or something...

Where in the world do I cram in a Buick and a Pontiac in between those two??? HOW do I cram a Buick and a Pontiac in between those two??? How do I differentiate them??? How do I reserve the Cadillac as my "Gold Standard" with a more expensive, higher content Buick flitting about the market???

Even if I figure out a way to give every Buick AWD, there's no way in the world I can do it for a price anywhere near the Impala SS, which means that the discrepancy in pricing between it and the Cadillac will become even more pronounced than the discrepancy in pricing between the Chevrolet and the Cadillac.


Shutting off the Buick and Pontiac and Saturn lines is probably nearly impossible given the mess GM went through eliminating Olds, but I'm at a loss here...

I can't figure out any way to market a Buick or Pontiac in between Cadillac and Chevrolet, and Saturn is COMPLETELY useless.

Anything Saturn can do, Chevrolet can or should do better.

I scratcheth my head and ponder on...

 

Very simple.

Pontiac - Build cars that target Nissan and Mazda demographics
Buick - Get rid of it in the states, Leave it as a Chinese brand
Saturn - Becomes Opel of US, which it now seems to be with it's all new line of cars and SUV's coming out soon.

 

I keep clinging with hope to that Automotive News article that stated Pontiac may be all RWD vehicles in a few years

 

Buick = FWD lux and large cars. A little over lap is ok since they will help make Pontiac/Buick/GMC a full brand. Just don't make any Buicks rebadges.

 

Buick:
LWB sedan version of RWD chassis and FWD/AWD EPII, and Enclave

Pontiac:

Coupes and sedans SWB: RWD, EPII, and Solstice.

GMC:

Chevy truck rebadges w/ chrome and more lux.

 

Saturn/Opel...make it an import fighter... stop trying to make Impalas and malibu's look like imports, use saturns to get the import sales.

Pontiac...performance, things that are optional on chevy are standard here. They need an awd car though. I wish their was a way to keep the powertrains different between the two.

Buick --luxury compared to pontiac/chevy, fully loaded... but not the price of cadillac.
I dont think to many people are cross shopping a fully loaded v8 Impala vs. a no optioned CTS.....
Now a low optioned CTS vs. a v8 lacrosse...i could see. I see people who are shopping for cadillac as deciding between that and lexus, mercedes, lincoln....are

Also....chevy recognize itself truly as the volume brand and quit complaining everytime a different brand gets something to differentiate itself. If buick/pontiac would get an awd version on a similiar platform...chevy would want it too.

 

Actually, that's exactly what I am cross-shopping right now , though I'd say the CTS is more of a "mid-optioned" version rather than a no-option version.

 

I disagree. Chevrolet, by it's sheer volume, offers higher value than Saturn ever could.

I would.

Chevrolet drives the business cases at GM (along with Cadillac). NO Buick or Pontiac exists without Chevrolet... except for MAYBE Solstice and G6... MAYBE...

Velite?
Only if there's a Camaro and/or a RWD sedan for Chevrolet?

New GTO?
See above.

 

I dont think chevy should be making cars that look like camrys, altimas and accords...i think nissan and toyotas should be making cars that look like impalas.

I agree...chevy drives the business case. But you dont think chevy guys wanted the redline in place of saturn?
If the Grand prix gets a new hot item or engine...you dont think chevy will want that too?
If impala, grand prix, and lacrosse have exactly the same options, powertrains..etc... then their truly is no reason to have anything but chevy besides giving the buyer a name brand choice. Known as badge engineering.

 

I like your thoughts there.

Sky Redline? Probably not. Looks like they're going to get a turbocharged HHR SS sometimes soon...

They've already got the Cobalt SS, a new Camaro coming, the Monte Carlo SS, Impala SS and Corvette.

Methinks they have the performance angle covered, apart from the fact that the Camaro isn't here yet and the Monte Carlo and Impala SS's are underpowered relative to the DCX 300 series cars AND wrong-wheel drive.

That being said, I think a 300hp FWD car for $30,000 is a good idea, it's just not the correct platform for a performance car.

A 350hp AWD car is a BETTER idea, but the market just isn't there yet.

Impalas are not languishing on lots. They're selling very well and will crush the DCX cars in the market from a volume standpoint.

Welp, look at the engine choices right now...

The V8 in the Grand Prix and the "Super" LeCrosse exists because Chevrolet pioneered it for them. The 3.8 is dying, and the 3.9 and 3.5 are BOTH carried by Chevrolet from a volume standpoint.

The LSx series motors (of which the 5.3 liter is one) exist because of TRUCKS... They just happen to power cars very nicely also...

Trucks at GM = Chevrolet (with a couple of GMC's tossed in... which are really just Chevrolets anyway).


My exact point. All Buick and Pontiac are doing is badge engineering - apart from G6 and Solstice.

That's why I'm struggling. I can't figure out anything a Grand Prix does for me that an Impala can't do on one end or a CTS can't do (better) on the other.

The prices bear that out too.

If I'm looking for value or some measure of raw performance - odds say there's a Chevrolet that'll meet my needs. Impala is a great example.

If I'm looking for luxury, why would I ever buy a Buick or Pontiac when I can get into a CTS for just a hair more money and get a flat-out better car?

Basically, GM has a Toyota-Lexus relationship going with Chevrolet and Cadillac, but then has two other marketing divisions lumped in there too - and that muddies everything up.

I know this is anathema to Buick, Pontiac and Olds fans, but is this honestly the most efficient way to take on Toyota?

I honestly don't think so, but I'll temper that with the idea that killing off a division is very expensive in terms of PR, and in real dollars.

 

I thought I read somewhere the Grand Prix had larger front than rear tires and less torque steer than Impalla or something like that?

 

I agree with the notion that GM needs to define Pontiac and many of its other brands by what exactly they want to compete with. Along those lines:

Saab - Acura, Volvo, Audi, high-end Honda (FWD, AWD performance brands)

Saturn - VW, Honda

Pontiac - Nissan, Mazda, Dodge

Buick - High-end Toyota, Lexus


In such fashion, GM could use its "nich brands" as scalpels and truly turn their brands into a leverage in the market place rather than a liability.

 

Saturn is becoming Opel-USA with an Aura and Sky thrown in.

Pontiac at the moment seems like it's going to become Holden-USA, again with a version of Kappa & Espilon with a version of the US made big coupes thrown in.

Buick apparently is banking their existence on 2 big FWD sedans, a crossover, and selling Pontiacs in their showroom.

So in a way, Chevrolet & Cadillac (which are eventially going to be sold all over the planet) are GM's (North America) only real divisions.

 

{SNIP}

The safety angle won't be enough to keep Buick relevant, IMO. I view that as a "must have" for any brand, including economy brands. Maybe I'm missing a key safety feature that hasn't made its way down into the $25K range that would allow some distinction, but I don't think so - heck, a bazillion airbags and stability control are already present on "bargain" vehicles like the Hyundai Azera, and higher-end safety features such as night vision, lane departure, and stop-n-go distance-following cruise really should be rolled out on the Caddy range first (to properly compete with the Euro brands).

I think it's possible to make an argument for Chevy, Caddy, and one other brand (either something on the low end, or something to slot into the ever-so-narrow gap between the Bowtie and the wreath). Beyond that, the only thing keeping the rest of the brands alive is the market-share argument. Now, it's possible to give each of the "lesser brands" some sort of niche identity - "safety", "AWD", "hybrid", "diesel", etc. - but I think that this sort of this has a limited shelf life.

 

Exactly.

The thing is I see a case for Pontiac as the sporty division, but I don't see one for Saab or Buick?

Little stuff like manual transmission, HUD, automanual, racing seats, tuned suspension make all the difference in giving a seperate identity. Hell, the Impala/Malibu look like dull Toyota-inspired cars, but the Grand Prix is the only W-body I'd give a serious look at if I were in the market for a sedan.

I think there is a healthy market for Pontiac as the sporty division of GM.