It's not a circle jerk, it's about spouting out against boring product. Chevy and Toyota can (unjustly) get away with boring product because they cost $15k-$30k. However, if I'm going to a dealership to buy a $40k+ Cadillac, Lexus, BMW or MB I don't want it to be borning, I want people to know that I'm driving one, not a Scion or Chevy. I'm a God damn red blooded American - I want bold. The CTS, with all its interior flaws, has it and the IS350 doesn't. At least the IS300 stood out; they nutered the car and this is what happened when it lost its' sex drive.

Regardless of how boring this new Lexus is, I wont play the unfair card because Detroit dug themselves into this hole. Yet now they're trying to save jobs and face and the union will not go along with it. It's a whole pile of crap on both sides. This is the **** that's driving people to buy borning cars like the IS350. Terrible. F. The worst thing is the big two are making cars that are raging successes - the CTS and Mustang come to mind - which are the the epitome of American: big and bold, yet that can not seem to transfer to other cars? The CTS sells three to six times better than the GTO and the interior and power output (sans the $50,000 CTSv) pale in comparison. And don't feed me the fact that GM can only make x amount of GTO's a year - if they could sell 70,000 GTO's at $30,000 a piece they'd figure out a way to do it. How many 500's is Ford selling? Who the heck does these market studies, and who the heck do they study? GM finally puts out a few bold cars that are not Cadillacs - Sky and Solstice - and they're media and public queens. At the same time they give us the Malibu, new Impala and new Monte Carlo which all had, or will have, luke warm receptions at best? I really hope someone can bring out some exciting product across the board, not just in the luxury market, that makes the lower markets follow.

That's my rant for the evening.

 

WHAT???????? Are you KIDDING ME?

Go look at what any GM/Ford/DCX car gets hit with in terms of Tarriffs when shipped to Japan.....or the European Union, for that matter......

There are no import taxes or tarriffs on cars imported into the United States -- see....so there is not a level playing field...period.

The Unions were not developed within GM. Did they get out of control? You betcha! Was there ever a time when they deserved to be formed? Mebbe. Are they still unrealistic? I can't comment on that. (I have my opinions tho!) Did GM (and Ford and DCX) cave to their demands? Yup.....go look to the late spring and summer of 1998 to see what they did to GM......but that's several volumes that I could write........

Further, part of the health care crisis....is our Litigious society....and that is one of the biggest, in my opinion, reasons for spiraling heath care costs. Don't believe me? Ask a Doctor in the state of Pennsylvania, for instance, what happened to the cost of his or her malpractice insurance in the past year alone! Drug companies? Sued every day for causing side effects with drugs that have saved the lives of hundreds of thousands...if not millions......


Yup.....I'm prejudiced.......but facts are facts.

As to the "jerk" thing.........this site IS called "CamaroZ28.com".....so mebbe that's why not everyone agrees with your view on foreign cars.


Now.....my opinion? You don't have to buy a GM car or truck. If you don't buy GM, as an American, I think you should buy Ford or DCX. Otherwise, don't complain as the economy sputters.....and our trade imbalance continues to spin wildly out of control. (Alan Greenspan has got to be having nightmares........)

Flame away, all!

 

Another thing....(and by the way......these are my personal opinions and in no way should be construed as the opinions of the company I work for...)

Before someone blurts out "oh yeah? well, what about Aveos???"....let me address just a few points on that.

GM/Ford/DCX cannot build a car in this country for the price point of the Aveo.....for many many reasons. Simply cannot be done without losing a ton of money. What do you do in order to penetrate that 'entry level' market?

Further, GM/Ford/DCX, in trying to continue to be world producers of cars and trucks must invest in other companies for many, many reasons -- and one very good reason is to get the distribution channel in other countries. The United States and Canada are not the only Automobile battle grounds my friends.......there's the rest of the world.

Am I personally happy that we import Aveos? No.....but I also understand why it has to be done.

 

Woah, reread what I wrote. I said that on US soil it was fair game. Cars imported to the US are charged tarrifs and import taxes by our government unless I've been horribly misled all these years.

I didn't say anything about any other countries except Japan, where I said it's definitely not a level playing field and easily understandable why GM can't get a foot in the door there.

I'm not surprised that it's a circle jerk going on in here, either... not blaming anyone for it. I just said don't get agitated with me just because I choose not to join it. What good is one more load blown into the pile of repeated information compared to fresh info... whether or not y'all consider it to be a boring car or not (it's not like other boring non-Toyota cars aren't discussed here all the time without a big uproar like this)

 

Yes, my point is that evidently you've been terribly misled. There are tarriffs on trucks, but not on cars....and the tarriffs on trucks coming into this country are no where near what the tarriffs are when a U.S. built truck OR CAR is shipped to the European Union.....or worse, in Japan.

 

Do you ever get off the Toyota/Lexus bandwagon? ghat damn boy... that crap is getting soo old.

We dont have a circle jerk going on here. Never have had one.

This "lexus is God"(might as well be what you are saying ALL the time) thing is getting old.

 

Back on topic, Those are great power numbers from the 3.5. It seems as if the 3.5 V-6's are the modern smallbock battlefields. Almost every company has an entry and their all competing and we are winning. When does the lexus go on sale? Heres the 3.5s or similar that I now off the top of my head.

Nissan 3.5 250-300hp debuted in 2002 max with 255hp

Acura 3.2?? 270hp

BMW 3.3 255hp

GM 3.6 HF 255hp

Toyota Avalon 3.5 280hp

MB 3.5 280hp

DCX 3.5 255hp

And now the lexus pulls this, nice.

BTW I read where theres a 300hp GM HF under development. Any truth?

 

Not really. I never said GM was unreliable. Ever. The Lesabre went to an easy 170,000 miles and got itself a female owner, which is instant death to any car.

Remember I want to sell my car when I get a better job and pick up a Caddy or a 'Vette. I don't want to own something that is worth less than I owe on it when the time comes that I want to sell the damn thing.
What did GM have in my price range? When I got the car, they had the Cobalt. I was unfamiliar with it but the Cobalt SS wasn't going to be a good choice for me, because I don't like buying brand new cars in their first model year. I would have had more selection but GM did their employee discount pricing 2 months AFTER I bought my car.
Otherwise you never know, I could be driving a Grand Prix GT or a G6, maybe a CTS (haha I wish)
And being a hardworking company, what makes you think Toyota doesn't deserve recognition?
They're selling off their names reputation for reliability, build quality and resale value. GM is selling on discounts, low finance rates and cash back incentives.

 

Lexus is getting better with making high performance with well defined character and styling while Caddy is getting better in terms of long-term durability and build quality.

Competition is a beautiful thing.

I just talk about the 'other' side of things because nobody else really does.

 

If a new Chevy/Pontiac/Buick came out with a new 300hp v8, RWD or AWD car with SMG that was well put together and even moderately attractive it would be hailed as the second coming.

While you do hump the toyos alot I do see where you are coming from. How many times can we say we talk about what gm needs to do, too much of which they arent.

 

I have to imagine this is really the big reason we see Tundras, Tacomas, Titans, etc. being built over here. It's a wonderful angle to be able to say "look, we Japanese provide jobs to Americans aren't we swell" while the true motivation is to quite obviously make those trucks even more profitable by skirting the tarriffs.

I'm sorry, continue, I don't want to add to the "circle" on CamaroZ28.com.

 

See... this is what I mean. I post a simple damn post about a cool new car coming to market that I'm really interested in. And admittedly it's a Toyota product which I do post about more often than any other brand, but predictably I get a bunch of grumpy ol' GM boys starting off with "oh it's nothing but a bland as hell 300 horsepower RWD appliance" (OK I understand a camry and such being an appliance, but how does this car continue to be such? just because it'll probably be reliable?), and then eventually moving on to just flat out attacking me for always being the one to post Lexus/Toyota Honda/Acura stuff. I'm not trying to say I'm innocent and y'all are not. I'm a big fan of their stuff. I'm just saying don't try to pretend y'all aren't having a big circle jerk of your own - especially if you get pissed at me for not joining.

Another major reason might be the fact that they probably don't sell those models anywhere but here in the US or North America at the most.

And I hate to break it to you, but the LARGE majority of Toyota, Honda, and Nissan cars (not just trucks) that are sold in the US are built in the US.

Heck... the Accord and Camry, two of the best sellers out there, have been built domestically for 20 years now. I checked the part content sticker on my friend's 05 Acura TL the other day (built in Marysville Ohio) and it was only 20% Japanese. How much more can you really expect?

 

I like the styling of the out-going IS300 better. This new one looks like an Acura with a different front end. It seems they went from a European looking IS back to a Japanese look. Not sure if they decided they can't make a better 3-series than BMW, so they will fight the other Japanese manufactures instead.

 

The problem is the car is not cool. The engine is cool, the car is borning.

Edit - is the wood in the interior real or fake?

http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/J...-5016/IS_5.jpg

 

I absolutely love the look of this car, inside and now. . . sits nice and low too. No big GM gaps.

I'd love to buy this car, too. Problem is, it'll probably price out in the upper $30's, right in the same price range as an SRT-8 LX car. While the Lexus is rumored to run a 13.7 1/4 mile (right in line w/ the published 0-60 of 5.6 s), the very low 13s/high 12 SRT-8 would be much more preferred. . . not to mention the huge interior.
:-)

Mike