Z284ever

Leaps and bounds?

....don't you mean hops and stumbles?

Z284ever

I think in many ways 4th gen proponants are shooting themselves in the foot.

Why?


In order to validate and reaffirm your beliefs in your 4th gen you argue that certain specific aspects of your new car..are better than someone elses old car.

The shadow of the 3rd gen looms large over the 4th gen...doesn't it?


I'd doubt that in 10-20 years people will argue which will be better 4th gen or 5th gen.

Darth Xed

By no means do I take a magazine artcile to be law, but it makes a point.

Two objective (in theory) sources putting the 2 cars about equal.

Man, I really like 3rd gens and all, but the whole inflated view of 3rd gen capabilities is just astounding.

formula79

Take the average 93 Z28 and run it against the best third gen and it will get a hole stomped in it's a$$. I will be honest...If I couldn't afford a new car I would have to defend my old car too. If I remember right for the longest time 5.0L's were handing IROC's thier A$$.


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Branden-Founder www.GMInsidenews.com
The #1 GM News Site on the Net!
1995 Firebird A4
White with red leather
1979 Firebird Formula SOLD!!! 8/2001
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formula79

BTW sales wise the second gen was the best generation...I don't see the 3nd gen guys worring about coming out of thier shadow....


The early 70's Trans Am's were beasts that didn't have thier performance matched untill the LT1. SD 455 anyone? Plus teh second gen cars were the best handling cars of thier day, next to a Corvette. In the late 70's, the Trans Am matter of fact was GM's flagship. I think in 79, they sold 250,000+ firebirds and almost as many Camaro's. If anything for how well the second gen thrived in the bad performance times I would say that it had a better run than the third generation.

For some reason whenever I have been in a third gen I feel like I am in an Escort on steriods.



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Branden-Founder www.GMInsidenews.com
The #1 GM News Site on the Net!
1995 Firebird A4
White with red leather
1979 Firebird Formula SOLD!!! 8/2001
Visit my homepage!

Z284ever

I can't help but notice, that for someone who is driving an eight year old V6 Firebird...you sure talk like a BIG SPENDER.

I'd bet that with at all the 3rd gens you purportedly see at the trailer parks you cruise through, ....they must think that you are some kind of movie star over there.

Z284ever

When you say LT1..are you referring to the 701/2 Z/28 which could show it's tail lights to any Trans Am.....or do you consider that a trailer park ornament also?

formula79

I was refering to the newer LT1. There may be few good looking 2nd gens around, but they are also at least 21 years old now. I see alot more of them on the roads than I do older cars.

When I bought my car I test drove a 99 V6 (Insurence on the V8 is too much, I will wait till next year.) and there was not onough of a difference to warrent the extra $7K that the dealer wanted over my 95. Plus I love the red interior and how clean the car is overall.

Red himself has said that it seems the most vocal complaints from 4th gen cars seem to come from people who have old Camaro's.....

My car has held up well for a daily driven 8 year old car...I am sur eyou dont drive that 91 Camaro everyday What do you drive a Taurus???

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Branden-Founder www.GMInsidenews.com
The #1 GM News Site on the Net!
1995 Firebird A4
White with red leather
1979 Firebird Formula SOLD!!! 8/2001
Visit my homepage!

Z284ever

It's an '89...and no it's not my daily driver.

Inwo

The IROC pulled a .85G and the 4th just skidded 86 feet

Jim85IROC

It's a double-sided coin. 4th genners think their car is the holy grail of automotive ownership and automatically dismiss thirdgens as junk. Every 4th genner thinks that every thirdgen has a 150hp LG4 and skinny 15" tires with small sway bars and soft springs. I'll admit that the 4th gen is superior in most regards. More power, better transmissions, somewhat stiffer chassis. But the one (and basically ONLY one) thing that the thirdgen does better than the 4th gen is handle. Granted it's at a substantial sacrifice in ride quality, but a stock WS6 or IROC will outhandle a stock SS or WS6 4th gen, and will also respond better to suspension modifications. It's really silly to try and argue otherwise. Hang out at an SCCA or local track event if you live near a roadcourse and pay attention to whose cars go through the corners better.

Plus... you're taking stats from 2 totally different sources. You get your camaro stats from Road & Track, and your 4th gen info from some guy named Vinny. At least try to get info from the SAME magazine. Not that even the same magazine's numbers can make much of a comparison. But just to prove that no 2 magazines are the same, here's some thirdgen stuff to chew on:

Motor Trend (July 1990)
Lateral acceleration,0.90g

Hot Rod, January 1990:
Skidpad- .87g

Somewhere at home I've got an original road test of the 85 IROC. I believe it's the October issue of Car & Driver, but I could be mistaking. Anyway... they give a .90 test number to the skidpad too.

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The IROC Homepage
View the Restoration of an 85 IROC
Weekend projects aren't.

[This message has been edited by Jim85IROC (edited July 15, 2002).]

Z284ever

How true. You'd think the 4th gens SLA front suspension would out handle the 3rd gens McPherson struts...but 4th gens always felt like they handled alittle "lazy" to me compared to 3rd gens. Maybe the 4th gens softer ride is to blame.

Anyhooo.....3rd gens literally dominated showroom stock road racing in the '80s.

Porsche...with MEGA factory backing in'83 and'84, tried to dethrone the Z/28 for two years in SCCA showroom stock, with the 944.....unsuccessfully. They thought the Camaro would be a pushover...but (if I remember correctly)...they lost every race to the Camaro Z/28. After two seasons...Porsche decided to end the slaughter.

The 3rd gen Z/28 sent the boys from Zuffenhousen packing in discrace.

Does anyone follow the NASA Camaro-Mustang challenge series? How competitive are 3rd gens compared to 4th gens in that series?



[This message has been edited by Z284ever (edited July 15, 2002).]

IZ28

Yup. And guess what?? IROC-Z's were getting .92 G's back in 85 dude. By GM themselves and magazines. Why don't people with Thirds say anything about 2nds?? Because the Thirds were alot better and theres no need to discuss that. There was so much interest in them no really thought about them, every1 was buying new Thirds. Today people still think about the Thirds and previous Gens and buy them instead of 4ths. Why do people with previous Gen F-Bodies say things about 4ths?? Because just like mostly every1 else we don't like them either. BTW, did the 4ths ever make a most stolen list?? Its like thieves don't even have interest in them. It wasn't like that with Thirds. People are still after them today. They were the best looking cars on the road in their time and IMO are the best looking cars ever made.

Z28Wilson

I have to say this is probably your most ludacris post ever! Congrats!

Haha well then, that is conveniently simple. You can't use sales as a big part of your argument for the 3rd vs. 4th and then ignore the fact that the 2nd outsold the 3rd. (I do agree that the 3rd Gen cars are nicer so don't jump all over me!)

Here we go with the "everybody" stuff again. You really need to take the time to buy a clue outside your circle of friends and aquaintances.

Honda Accords are the most stolen vehicle every year for the past 10+ years. Do you really think it's because they are a desireable car in terms of speed, handling, looks, etc.???? Of course not. They sell a bizillion of them every year and their parts are valuable. So yeah, the 3rd Gen sold very well. Not sure why you'd need to brag about more of your cars being stolen and stripped.

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">They were the best looking cars on the road in their time and IMO are the best looking cars ever made.

Ok umm, the 3rd generation Camaro is the best looking car, ever? For the love of everything holy in the Auto industry, put down the crack pipe and slowly step away....

EDIT--By the way IZ28, check out Branden's poll at gminsidenews.com about "which gen F-body is your favorite". After 120 votes, I think you'll be shocked at what you see so far. Better make sure you go there and vote over and over again all night.

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Mark

94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)

Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)

The F-body will NEVER die.

[This message has been edited by Z28Wilson (edited July 15, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Z28Wilson (edited July 15, 2002).]

Inwo

That's probably what YOU are doing so what's your point?