If 4th gen production continued....would anyone buy?
07-14-2002, 01:44 PM
#46
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Z284ever:
I'm going to tell you guys something, because I think I'm alittle older than some of you and I was there.
When the 3rd gens came out, their styling absolutely...positively...blew people away. I'm not just talking about a narrow (or narrow-minded) group of enthusiasts. I'm talking everyone..including the press. Some called them the most beautiful cars to come out of Detroit in decades.
They certainly weren't perfect...but they were sooo much better than their predecessors...that people couldn't buy them fast enough.
Their handling was so far beyond the 2nd gen or any direct competitors that people like **** Gulstrand called the '82 Z/28.."the American Ferrari".
One thing for sure...especially when some horsepower came online....they were a great image car for Chevy...so I don't know where this "mullet" stereotype argument comes from.
Now don't you 4th gen guys think that it is getting silly to compare your better T-tops and headliners...to a T*W*E*N*T*Y year old car and really be making a point?
[This message has been edited by Z284ever (edited July 14, 2002).]</font>
I'm going to tell you guys something, because I think I'm alittle older than some of you and I was there.
When the 3rd gens came out, their styling absolutely...positively...blew people away. I'm not just talking about a narrow (or narrow-minded) group of enthusiasts. I'm talking everyone..including the press. Some called them the most beautiful cars to come out of Detroit in decades.
They certainly weren't perfect...but they were sooo much better than their predecessors...that people couldn't buy them fast enough.
Their handling was so far beyond the 2nd gen or any direct competitors that people like **** Gulstrand called the '82 Z/28.."the American Ferrari".
One thing for sure...especially when some horsepower came online....they were a great image car for Chevy...so I don't know where this "mullet" stereotype argument comes from.
Now don't you 4th gen guys think that it is getting silly to compare your better T-tops and headliners...to a T*W*E*N*T*Y year old car and really be making a point?
[This message has been edited by Z284ever (edited July 14, 2002).]</font>
Good points Z284ever, that is in fact the way I remember the 3rd gens.
07-14-2002, 04:14 PM
#47
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Me too, I agree with the last few posts. And yes, I can say that our T-Top's have never leaked. Kinda stinks your 4ths does though. 
And no matter what you say the 4ths front suspension for handling is not as good as the Thirds.
And no matter what you say the 4ths front suspension for handling is not as good as the Thirds.
07-14-2002, 09:04 PM
#49
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by IZ28:
Me too, I agree with the last few posts. And yes, I can say that our T-Top's have never leaked. Kinda stinks your 4ths does though. And no matter what you say the 4ths front suspension for handling is not as good as the Thirds. </font>
Me too, I agree with the last few posts. And yes, I can say that our T-Top's have never leaked. Kinda stinks your 4ths does though.
And no matter what you say the 4ths front suspension for handling is not as good as the Thirds. </font>
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07-14-2002, 09:23 PM
#50
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by IZ28:
As for that FWD thing, they didn't do that did they?? It was another of GM's stupid ideas that didn't make sense and they realized it. I mean, why would they?? The car was selling great and beating out the M*****g in every way. I'd say the most popular will always be the 1sts and Thirds. They have the design that people like which is classic and has a look that said Camaro and will always be liked. We had a post about this a while back. They have a blend of roundness and lines, you know lines, like a musclecar?! Not round, like an import. Yup lots of people really like the new Chrysler....I mean Camaro. IMO you are the 10%.
A good example: This dude I know in town, a car crazy dude that goes through cars like detailers go through wax. He has had a 1st Gen, 2nd Gen, Corvette, a Chevy truck, an import, a 4th Gen and a Third Gen. I asked him 1 day what his favorite was and his reply was "the Third Gen dude, and every1 I know said it was the coolest and nicest car I've had." Then he says "I just sold that 94 Z28 (which he and others never liked much) because I was looking for an IROC 350. Well he then goes on to tell me that he could not find an IROC-Z that he wanted for sale, so, he went and bought a new M*****g. Doh. That is something that we are all still surprised at. He actually would rather choose the F**d over having a 4th Gen. This is a person that always liked Chevrolet. And I've seen this routine and 1's like it time and again.
[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 13, 2002).]</font>
As for that FWD thing, they didn't do that did they?? It was another of GM's stupid ideas that didn't make sense and they realized it. I mean, why would they?? The car was selling great and beating out the M*****g in every way. I'd say the most popular will always be the 1sts and Thirds. They have the design that people like which is classic and has a look that said Camaro and will always be liked. We had a post about this a while back. They have a blend of roundness and lines, you know lines, like a musclecar?! Not round, like an import. Yup lots of people really like the new Chrysler....I mean Camaro. IMO you are the 10%.
A good example: This dude I know in town, a car crazy dude that goes through cars like detailers go through wax. He has had a 1st Gen, 2nd Gen, Corvette, a Chevy truck, an import, a 4th Gen and a Third Gen. I asked him 1 day what his favorite was and his reply was "the Third Gen dude, and every1 I know said it was the coolest and nicest car I've had." Then he says "I just sold that 94 Z28 (which he and others never liked much) because I was looking for an IROC 350. Well he then goes on to tell me that he could not find an IROC-Z that he wanted for sale, so, he went and bought a new M*****g. Doh. That is something that we are all still surprised at. He actually would rather choose the F**d over having a 4th Gen. This is a person that always liked Chevrolet. And I've seen this routine and 1's like it time and again.
[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 13, 2002).]</font>
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07-14-2002, 10:07 PM
#51
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Man... I feel like I'm watching a bad Cheech & Chong movie with all this mega-third gen talk... the hoochie smoke is just rolling out of the van like mad!
I'll shut up about it now, but having owned both a 3rd and a 4th gen, there is just no comparision. 4th Gen is way better all around, hands down.
I'd love to put these water-tight 12 year old 3rd gen T-Top seals to the waterhose test...
They weren't water tight very often of the factory floor.
[This message has been edited by Darth Xed (edited July 14, 2002).]
I'll shut up about it now, but having owned both a 3rd and a 4th gen, there is just no comparision. 4th Gen is way better all around, hands down.
I'd love to put these water-tight 12 year old 3rd gen T-Top seals to the waterhose test...
They weren't water tight very often of the factory floor. [This message has been edited by Darth Xed (edited July 14, 2002).]
07-14-2002, 10:25 PM
#52
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I have owned all gens.,and unfortunately have just sold my 68 CAMARO due to a never ending rust problem(it needed everything). I also own a 73 Z/28(under constuction).And sadly a 94 Z/28 A4,which was wrecked by some tenny boppers in an import.Needless to say I was crushed.So much so that I took the ins. money(It was her fault)and bought another 94 Z/28.This time a T56 car.Man these cars are great,how some of u can not see the resemlance,especially in the front end,between the 3rd n 4th gens is beyond me.When looked at from the front these cars are clearly siblings.The tail lights in the rear(4th gen.) also ressemble that of the 75-77 model years.IMO they have kept the spirit of the CAMARO N FIREBIRD true to its heritage.I also liked the 3rd gens and also still own an 86 TPI T-Top T/A,Which by the way leaked like hell,but i drove the s*** out of it.Its now in rough shape,and is for sale.Too many projects.To answer the question,back when I first heard the news of the LS6 in the Vette.I had been planning to buy a new CAMARO, when the LS6 made it into the CAMARO,as has always happened with the pottent Vette engines.Sadly that won't happen,however the parts are available through GMPP,so guess I'll have to build my own LS6.Which car to put it in HMM!!,Old or New,I'll have to give it some thought.Yes I would have bought 1,now I'll just have to wait.I also agree ADVERTISING would have really helped sell these cars.Some of the buying public needs to be told what to buy,just look at the best sales year for CAMARO(1978)it was one of the worst times for performance yet they couldn't keep them on the showroom.I could be wrong but I seem to remember alot of ads for these years.Maybe not on the tube but certainly in all the rags we were all reading back then (for those of us were old enough to be into into cars back them).Also with all the free advertising ford was getting on the mustang during the 3rd gen years(every video had a mustang in it),nowadays every car care product ad seems to have a mustang in it.Also phrases like ITALIAN RETARDS OUT CRUISING,and MULLETS didn't help,F-Bodies on into the 4TH gen years.Not to mention GM's lack of advertising.It wouldn't cost a **** load of money if it didn't work.I would have embraced a "stripper" CAMARO as some one else mentioned,maybe then I could have afforded the payments and the insurance here in N.J.ALL CAMARO's are great in their own right!!!
07-15-2002, 12:58 AM
#53
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by formula79:
It like a ricer saying yeah man I had the Acura RSX, but it was a major POS, so now I have this 87 (or whenever the hell they made them) CRX
</font>
It like a ricer saying yeah man I had the Acura RSX, but it was a major POS, so now I have this 87 (or whenever the hell they made them) CRX
</font>
07-15-2002, 01:05 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MunchE:
See, if the new GTO had hood scoops like the IROC, IZ28 would be defending it</font>
See, if the new GTO had hood scoops like the IROC, IZ28 would be defending it</font>
If it was on a 5th Gen yeah. Now if the GTO had hood scoops like a GTO I would, but as long as it looks the way that picture did, I will not. [This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 15, 2002).]
07-15-2002, 01:07 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Darth Xed:
I'll shut up about it now, but having owned both a 3rd and a 4th gen, there is just no comparision. 4th Gen is way better all around, hands down.</font>
I'll shut up about it now, but having owned both a 3rd and a 4th gen, there is just no comparision. 4th Gen is way better all around, hands down.</font>
Then get a few people to take the looks test, then the dash view test, then the windshield test, then the working on engine test, and so on....Wheres all the interest in the 4ths?? Did any of them win best handling car in the U.S.?? Did any ever get selected Car Of The Year?? Did they get called the nicest looking cars ever built by GM?? Did they get incredible G's in the low 9's all stock?? (especially for their time) Did they get selected 1 of 12 best cars in the world and win the Best Sports GT category?? (which for the Thirds was the $11,000 to $14,000 range) Did they get record .29-.34 Cd in a time when .Cd like that was practically unheard of?? (they were actually the most aerodynamic cars ever built by GM then) Did they outsell their competitor?? Did they get the constant magazine covers and reviews?? National attention?? All kinds of buyers?? Affordability?? Come on already people, the 4th Gen was a bust in some ways and just aren't and haven't been liked as the previous Gens have. It wasn't successfull and is the only Gen that wasn't. All Gens have their certain/own advantages and disadvantages. Was the LS1 fast, yeah, but they are still the cars that have guaranteed us no F-Body next year and got beat out by a car (the M*****g) that can't handle as good, is slower, IMO isn't built as good in some ways, and can't match the F-Body still in every performance category. I just hope the 5th Gen is different and is more like the 1st 3 Gens.
[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 16, 2002).]
07-15-2002, 07:28 AM
#56
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by IZ28:
Really?? Nope. Get on a skidpad with an IROC-Z28. Then get a few people to take the looks test, then the dash view test, then the windshield test, then the working on engine test, and so on....
Wheres all the interest in the 4ths?? Did any of them win best handling car in the U.S.?? Did any ever get selected car of the year?? Did they get called the nicest looking cars ever built by GM?? Did they get incredible G's in the low 9's all stock?? (especially for their time) Did they get selected 1 of 12 best cars in the world and win the Best Sports GT category?? (which for the Thirds was the $11,000 to $14,000 range) Did they get record .29-.34 Cd in a time when .Cd like that was practically unheard of?? (they were actually the most aerodynamic cars ever built by GM then) Did they outsell their competitor?? Did they get the constant magazine covers and reviews?? National attention?? All kinds of buyers?? Affordability?? Come on already people, the 4th Gen was a bust in some ways and just aren't and haven't been liked as the previous Gens have. It wasn't successfull and is the only Gen that wasn't. All Gens have their certain/own advantages and disadvantages. Was the LS1 fast, yeah, but they are still the cars that have guaranteed us no F-Body next year and got beat out by a car (the M*****g) that can't handle as good, is slower, IMO isn't built as good in some ways, and can't match the F-Body still in every performance category. I just hope the 5th Gen is different and is more like the 1st 3 Gens.
[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 15, 2002).]</font>
Really?? Nope. Get on a skidpad with an IROC-Z28.
Then get a few people to take the looks test, then the dash view test, then the windshield test, then the working on engine test, and so on....Wheres all the interest in the 4ths?? Did any of them win best handling car in the U.S.?? Did any ever get selected car of the year?? Did they get called the nicest looking cars ever built by GM?? Did they get incredible G's in the low 9's all stock?? (especially for their time) Did they get selected 1 of 12 best cars in the world and win the Best Sports GT category?? (which for the Thirds was the $11,000 to $14,000 range) Did they get record .29-.34 Cd in a time when .Cd like that was practically unheard of?? (they were actually the most aerodynamic cars ever built by GM then) Did they outsell their competitor?? Did they get the constant magazine covers and reviews?? National attention?? All kinds of buyers?? Affordability?? Come on already people, the 4th Gen was a bust in some ways and just aren't and haven't been liked as the previous Gens have. It wasn't successfull and is the only Gen that wasn't. All Gens have their certain/own advantages and disadvantages. Was the LS1 fast, yeah, but they are still the cars that have guaranteed us no F-Body next year and got beat out by a car (the M*****g) that can't handle as good, is slower, IMO isn't built as good in some ways, and can't match the F-Body still in every performance category. I just hope the 5th Gen is different and is more like the 1st 3 Gens.
[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 15, 2002).]</font>
OK, enough about the 3rd gen out-skidpadding the 4th gen
It's NOT true. Here's 2 artciles. One reviews the IROC-Z, another a 4th Gen:IROC-Z: .85g on skidpad
4th GEN: .86 skidpad
http://www.iroc-z.com/articles/artic...ackarticle.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~streetwiz...s/under30.html
Seriously, it's time to wake up from your 3rd gen wet dream...
07-15-2002, 08:30 AM
#57
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Z284ever:
You do realize that an RSX is several generations beyond a CRX, don't you? The 4th gen is barely a half of a generation beyond a 3rd gen.
Originally posted by formula79:
It like a ricer saying yeah man I had the Acura RSX, but it was a major POS, so now I have this 87 (or whenever the hell they made them) CRX
</font>
It like a ricer saying yeah man I had the Acura RSX, but it was a major POS, so now I have this 87 (or whenever the hell they made them) CRX
</font>
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07-15-2002, 10:06 AM
#58
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I dumped MY crappy fouth gen for cuz I liked my 94 Mustang Cobra pace car a lot better as a daily driver. I bought new Cobras every year after that 94, until the ugly 99 stang restyle.
Ugly cars dont get my money as a rule, but I made an exception and bought a 93 z28 anyway. I was until then a loyal GM guy. I soon realized it was a mistake to ignore my misgivings about the 4th gen, and I sold it after about 10 months of ownership.
The 4th gen caused me to buy the first of many many Ford's. My answer would be NO, not interested in buying a 2003 4th gen.
I was considering buying a 2002 Formula hard top. Then GM decided to offer only T tops for 2002 in both the Formula and the TA, so that killed my desire for a 2002.
I kept my 92 TA, and always will keep it. I particularly think 85-92 IROC, Z28s and RS's are the most beautiful Camaros ever.
I also think the 85-92 Trans Ams are the most beautiful Firebirds ever.
I will always have at least 1 Third Gen in my yard
I see gold chainer/gold letter kitted/mullet headed guys driving all different makes and years of cars.
I had a mullet when I had my 93 Z28 4th gen!!!
[This message has been edited by Reno Leigh (edited July 15, 2002).]
Ugly cars dont get my money as a rule, but I made an exception and bought a 93 z28 anyway. I was until then a loyal GM guy. I soon realized it was a mistake to ignore my misgivings about the 4th gen, and I sold it after about 10 months of ownership.
The 4th gen caused me to buy the first of many many Ford's. My answer would be NO, not interested in buying a 2003 4th gen.
I was considering buying a 2002 Formula hard top. Then GM decided to offer only T tops for 2002 in both the Formula and the TA, so that killed my desire for a 2002.
I kept my 92 TA, and always will keep it. I particularly think 85-92 IROC, Z28s and RS's are the most beautiful Camaros ever.
I also think the 85-92 Trans Ams are the most beautiful Firebirds ever.
I will always have at least 1 Third Gen in my yard
I see gold chainer/gold letter kitted/mullet headed guys driving all different makes and years of cars.
I had a mullet when I had my 93 Z28 4th gen!!!
[This message has been edited by Reno Leigh (edited July 15, 2002).]
07-15-2002, 10:11 AM
#59
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blah blah blah. It's all crap. Nobody is accomplishing anything from this. Thirdgenners like their cars better. Fourthgenners like their cars better. We both have our reasons. Both cars have their advantages, and we all prioritize differently. Personally, I feel that both of the cars have major drawbacks, but I'm more willing to deal with the thirdgen's drawbacks instead of the 4th gen's. The thirdgens basically had a crap drivetrain. The L98 is a great motor, but the 700R4 is weak and the T5 is total junk. But I didn't plan on keeping anything in my drivetrain original, so that was a non-issue for me. I find the handing of the thirdgen to be substantially more to my liking. I hate the "heavy" feel of the 4th gen and the numb steering. I also hate having the sun visor 3" from my forehead, and no matter what I do, I can't make that change.
I find the appearance of the thirdgen to be far more apealing, but there are plenty of beautiful looking 4th gens that I could "learn to live with".
Another huge advantage that the thirdgens carry is price. They are substantially less expensive. That's more mod money. No matter what performance level you're trying to achieve, you can do it for less money in a thirdgen. Modification costs and repair costs are also generally much lower too. There's enough of a market out there that LT1s aren't really any more expensive to build, especially when you price TPI mods, but daily maintence costs are still higher. Brakes, sensors, exhaust, and basically everything else is more expensive on an LT1 than a thirdgen.
Now before everybody flames me for my comments, just remember that I simply stated a few of my reasons for preferring the thirdgen. I realize that plenty of others have different interests and priorities, and the 4th gens accomodate their interests best.
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I find the appearance of the thirdgen to be far more apealing, but there are plenty of beautiful looking 4th gens that I could "learn to live with".
Another huge advantage that the thirdgens carry is price. They are substantially less expensive. That's more mod money. No matter what performance level you're trying to achieve, you can do it for less money in a thirdgen. Modification costs and repair costs are also generally much lower too. There's enough of a market out there that LT1s aren't really any more expensive to build, especially when you price TPI mods, but daily maintence costs are still higher. Brakes, sensors, exhaust, and basically everything else is more expensive on an LT1 than a thirdgen.
Now before everybody flames me for my comments, just remember that I simply stated a few of my reasons for preferring the thirdgen. I realize that plenty of others have different interests and priorities, and the 4th gens accomodate their interests best.
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07-15-2002, 10:14 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Darth Xed:
OK, enough about the 3rd gen out-skidpadding the 4th gen It's NOT true. Here's 2 artciles. One reviews the IROC-Z, another a 4th Gen:
IROC-Z: .85g on skidpad
4th GEN: .86 skidpad
http://www.iroc-z.com/articles/artic...ackarticle.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~streetwiz...s/under30.html
Seriously, it's time to wake up from your 3rd gen wet dream...
</font>
OK, enough about the 3rd gen out-skidpadding the 4th gen
It's NOT true. Here's 2 artciles. One reviews the IROC-Z, another a 4th Gen:IROC-Z: .85g on skidpad
4th GEN: .86 skidpad
http://www.iroc-z.com/articles/artic...ackarticle.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~streetwiz...s/under30.html
Seriously, it's time to wake up from your 3rd gen wet dream...
</font>
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View the Restoration of an 85 IROC
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