I own an '01 WS6 and two '91s (GTA/ T/A). I don't think our car's are wet noodles so I don't know what the f*** you're talking about. I'm referring to all the posters on this thread and others that talk about our chassis's rigidity. It should and could've been better, but it certainly wasn't inferior. Somehow you got out of my post exactly the opposite of what I said, so stick your attitude up where the sun doesn't shine. If you're going to jump on me at least you can be smart enough to understand what I posted.

Every one of my cars has rattles. Lets name them on my 4th gen: center console, right t-top inside the handle, (and I've never removed my t-tops once, I absolutely hate t-tops but had no choice if I wanted a T/A), driver's door. I only have 6K miles on my car and I've haven't played around with any interior components.

Thanks genius. I'm a much better detective since I've eliminated most of the rattles in both my 3rd gens but its irritating when you develop rattles after only 2K miles on a car that had SFCs installed with 500 miles on the car (referring to my '01).

 

I'm not trying to create a p**ing match or flame or derail this post but I do get very irritated when someone attacks me for saying something completely the opposite of what I said (and think).

 

dnovotny - Well my apologies. However I've read quite a few opinions in my time and frankly yours was ambiguous. No need to get all in a huff (where do you get this stuff about getting jumped on... believe me you'd know it if I were to stoop to making a personal attack). All I did was ask if you were an owner... pfft. But speaking of setting someone off, you should understand that coming to a Camaro enthusiast's board and speaking for 4gen owners to whit, "even 4gen owners believe their car is a wet noodle" is a statement that's bound to be challenged. And I believe it only helps perpetuate the myth. Plus - I can say "owners believe their car can transport them to Mars"... that's probably true too... there are likely one or two out of the hundreds of thousands of owners who are looney enough (NOT saying you are one of them ) to believe that too. But seriously - are most 4gen owners ignorant enough to think that a squeak or rattle (often caused by their own malfeasance) is due to poor rigidity? I think not. Instead I would *hope* they have enough knowledge and experience with other cars to know the true signs of poor rigidity when they see them... cowl shake, poor responsiveness in bumpy turns and so on.

Never did I claim that every single 4gen ever made is rattle-free. I said the interior is solid, meaning it is well-designed and manufactured to be squeak and rattle-free. Too bad you have some noises. Every one of them is easily fixable, but that's another thread. But from MY experience, with nearly 50k miles on brutal potholed Michigan roads, the interior is noise-free on these cars. Except when noises are introduced by the occupants!

You should understand (and I'm not saying you don't) that you have changed your car's NVH characteristics by adding the SFC's. They strengthen a key weak point in the structure. But they also change the car from a noise standpoint. The stock, unaltered structure is the one put thru entire equivalent lifetimes by GM engineers and testers, and it was the one optimized for NVH control, road performance, crashworthiness, and minimum weight/cost. I've modified my cars too... and it's a lonely road without warranty support. Hopefully the benefits outweigh the cost. BTW how do you know your aftermarket parts were installed correctly?

There's one other thing that gets me about all this noise commentary. It raises the bar of expectations to weird levels for the 5gen. A lot of Fbody owners get off on this tangent and begin to lose focus on the main mission of the FBody, sporty performance on a budget. The 4gen fbody is an amazing performance value (maybe too amazing? - thinking of the teenagers who wrap them around trees). Part of the equation to keep it affordable included some liabilities like mold parting lines in the door handles. Big Deal. Meanwhile the performance (INCLUDING road performance) of the modern fbody is magnificent. If GM believes 5gen owners are going to fret and moan about design parameters that keep the car affordable, well then, the 5gen will not be very affordable and will only be accessible to the affluent. The good news here though - GM has been learning steadily how to make quality at low cost - and that will be reflected too in the 5gen.

 

I won't proclaim to be an expert in chassis rigidity, but if rigity and interior rattles are not an issue, then why do SO MANY 3rd and 4th Gen owners install Sub Frame Connectors (either welded or bolt on)?

And why do so many not only say the car flexs so much less after teh SFC's, but say also helps solves a lot of the interior squeeks and rattles? (This would shoot down saying that all interior squeeks and rattles have nothing to do with chassis rigity... I say it does. What works them loose? I think flex likely has a lot to do with that, but again, I am no expert.))

And saying, as IZ28 did, "We all need SFC's, from the 1st Gen to the 4th Gen, solve it and stop complaining." is crazy. How about solving the problem before the car leaves the drawing board?

 

I don't doubt that SFC's, properly manufactured, installed and protected from corrosion, do in fact help with this. The problem I see is when owners expect them to be a cure-all and protect them from all NVH, including that caused by owner abuse or neglect.

 

Oh I agree completely. It should've been that way for all of them and hopefully it isn't that way for the 5th Gen.

 

Man, that's expensive! Maybe things are just cheaper in the South, but I think the most I ever saw for an F-body was about $31,000 for a loaded '02 SS. It wasn't a convertible, though. In fact, I don't think I can remember seeing any SS convertibles at the dealership. Come to think of it, I can only remember seeing one SS convertible, period.