Understand what you are saying Mervz, but there seems to be plenty of people who didn't even know Camaro was still around before it was discontinued. Also, as JasonE pointed out, even some dealers knew nothing about them, and in the hands of a knowledgeable sales person, Camaros (or f-bodies in general) could have no doubt done better.

Another point, I'm going to assume you are right about 40% of Mustangs going to fleets. By also upping Camaro's sales 40%, it's still less than 45,000 cars per year. Mustangs sold 180,000 the last year it competed against Camaro. Even adding in Firebird, and a 40% increase there as well, Mustang still has a 100,000 car advantage. Looking at only V8 models, Mustang has a huge advantage. Looking at only the quanity of male buyers, Mustang has a huge advantantage. So it becomes pretty inescapable either the Camaro was purposely run into the ground (for whatever purpose: good or bad) or it's a texbook case of incompetence, especially in the light that in 1997, the f-bodies (at least when combined) did extremely well against the Mustang.

I won't doubt the results of buyers of Camaros & Mustangs flipping, however I went from a Mustang to a Camaro, and so did my sister. I'm open to other models for my next car, but my sis is now strongly Camaro, and plans to be the 1st in line to get a new one. The guy that bought a 93 Camaro Z28 I picked up and resold was also a former Mustang (89 GT) owner. So though I won't doubt the results of that poll, I think it should be kept in perspective and realize it does happen the other way.

There's perhaps a half dozen reasons Camaro was cancelled, and in all honesty, I don't know enough about GM politics to say authoritively if it was for the best, or if it was a completely idiotic move. But being that this is a Z28 site and there's no Z28, and there was no doubt the intent to end it that began many years before it finally was cancelled, of course alot of guys here are going to be near downright hostile to GM.

But at the same time, things can quickly change. If someone had come here 2 1/2 years ago and say Cadillac would be the hottest American auto brand, that person would have been laughed off the site. It will be intresting to jump ahead to June 2006 and see what's being said about GM then.

 

Where would we be if we never asked "why?" I'm pretty sure that was aimed at me, and I have plenty of reasons to back up why I would ask why. Everyone KNOWS what a Corvette is if their older than the age of 10. Its like knowing the name Michael Jordan. Sure it was a funny commercial, but why waste the money on that, rather than getting a Cavalier a little spotlight? Making it look a little more 'cool' to the young crowd...

Untrue, this may be opening a whole new discussion, but I gotta say this for the point of arguement. I was never really a 'car guy' until a few years ago when I saw a '01 Camaro Z28 SOM...It was beautiful! I saw it at a local car dealership. Until then I never really knew more about Camaro's other than my friend had a 3rd Gen and it was pretty cool looking. Never saw any commercials, never really heard anything about it other than some 'car guy' friends talking about them in convo's every once in a while...

I was a potential car buyer for this car, based solely on looks and comfort. I got to sit in that car, and I loved it, never test drove it though (I was 17 at the time). It had a 23K sticker, and I was thinking that seemed pretty fair. I had no idea about the performance of the car. I had no idea about its history. The only reason I didn't buy it was because I asked my mom to cosign for it w/ me, she went along w/ it, then I showed her the car when I got there and she had a fit about the insurance and that pretty much ended that for me Then it was gone a week later.

It was by LUCK that I became a Camaro enthusiast and later a 'car guy'. Think of how many more people missed their chance to be Camaro enthusiasts or Camaro buyers based solely on GMs lack of advertising for the product...

 

Wow, imagine that I agree with Darth Must be something they put in the Ohio water!

Ford puts the Cobra in anything they can get their hands on, the GT is all over. DC uses the Viper similar. Acura/Honda use the NSX and S2k. Even Caddy is putting the XLR all over.

Use the halo car for what its worth, halo-ing (new word?).

 

I think it's odd that GM would think that no advertising was necessary when a signifant number of the general population didn't even know they still made camaros. I was surprised how often I got comments like "they still make those?"

Besides, remember all those commercials in the 90's where they would show practically EVERY chevrolet EXCEPT camaro in the same commercial?

It's all too eerie to me. I think a vast right foot conspiracy killed affordable performance at GM.

 

It all depends on what it is you are looking for, and how you perceive what you see.

I'm not ever going to make someone less angry or more happy with GM in a few lines. Customers always make their own choices and, like it or not, that's their own reality.

A few examples of what leads me to believe GM isn't, for a fact. braindead?

Let's consider the avid exploration of improving the pushrod motor, active R&D in overhead cam tech, fuels cell tech, fuel cells R&D, and leading tech in computer control of vehicle systems.

Factory backed racing efforts in multiple venues particularly in roadracing. Look to see Caddy racing again but with something akin to what they sell.

Strong families of engines coming that will continue to prove pushrods ain't dead, that OHC is not the sole domain of eurotech or asiantech, that there's over the counter toys for more than just the SBC.

Feel what you might, but GM lead the way with keeping the economy going through car deals that were hard to refuse post 9-11.

More RWD is coming and a revitalized car lineup is taking shape faster than you think. Caddy, first, then Pontiac, run down the list... what's here is good, what's coming is even more impressive. Expect proof that going fast and paying a penalty in MPG isn't how it has to be.

Keep in mind smallblocks can get to golden age displacements and beyond golden age power ratings....

I've seen what GM is already doing, and peeked over the fence and have seen what's coming... like I said, it's perception. It may not appeal to everyone but it certainly isn't braindead.

I'm hoping that what winds your personal watch is coming soon from GM. I hope it will be priced where you feel it's worth it.

 

Me too. And I pretty much agree with your whole post.

I think that I'll kiss and make up with GM when the cars that we are speculating about actually hit the street. I'll feel even better if some of those cars rise above the lowest common (GM) denominator and actually become special.


Did I ever mention that I'm waiting for a REAL Z/28?

 

If GM doesn't earn your business then shame on us.

GM wants your business and I hope you will be patient, if possible.

 

I would like to point out that no part of my post was directed at any particular person. So, please, no-one take it personal.

 

Anyone who did not know the camaro was still being made is obviously very out of touch.

I'm just telling you what happened. The choice to stop making the car was made in 1999 (i think thats the correct year). It was all Ron Zarrella and the CAFE restrictions that never happened. By the time GM realised that there would not be any restrictions, there wasn't enough time to put anything together for the 03 model year.

Why spend money on an old model? Do you know how much money a TV commercial or print ad costs??????

 

That's refreshing.

 

Great minds think alike, my friend!

I think you, me and Z28Wilson may have been seperated at birth or something!!

 

I don't know, but being born and raised in Michigan I can assure you Ohio water is garbage!