I may have to start reconsidering "media bias" now...
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 4,320
From: Memphis
Yes, they are much better IMO which is why I ignore CR and pay attention to JD Power. I've actually taken JD Power surveys before so I've gotten to see how they're done and I can't really find any flaws in their method, or at least any flaws that would be reasonably able to be fixed.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,224
From: CNY
Am I the only one that has a family that has never, ever had a truly BAD American car? My parents have never had a true lemon...neither have I, or my grandparents, extended family etc. Other than a now-traded-in CRV, we all drive domestics as well...which says a lot considering how many families have a lot of foreign cars being driven these days.
Right from the '79 Chevette and '73 Camaro my parents owned when I was born, through the '08 Explorer, '05 TrailBlazer, '02 Formula and '03 Explorer they own now, they've never been stranded, ever...nor have they ever had a truly fatal repair needed. Same goes for myself as well.
The biggest repairs they've had? A '91 Grand Am SE H.O. Quad 4 cracked a head in '98 with 85k on it...that sucked. $1,000 later, it was driven to 155k before it was donated to charity. To be frank, the closest thing to a lemon they've owned is their current '03 Explorer Limited...the 4.6 flat sucks in it. With 65k miles on it, they just had all the HLA's replaced on the RH head because it rapped worse than Coolio on start-up for the first few minutes. 3 months later, its rapping again. It also has a case of dissappearing coolant, which baffles the dealer, my father, myself etc. It doesn't leak it...it doesn't appear to burn it...but its going somewhere, and no one can figure out where. However, the car was flawless until this last summer, but around 60k things started going downhill fast...2 wheel bearings, 6 disc fried, engine issues...they've spent over $2k on it since August, and it still isn't right
Yet meanwhile, my dad's '05 TB LT just passed 105k, with no issues. ONE REPAIR in that time...a squeaky idler pulley. Pretty flawless IMO. All this crap with the '03 Explorer happened 2 months after they bought the '08. I doubt they would have bought the '08 if they knew the '03 was about to give them major troubles...
They still would've bought American, but one has to wonder...how many other crappy Explorers are out there that are tarnishing Ford's image? Among many other crappy models from other domestic makes? I know the Japanese aren't flawless either...but its gonna take more time. What is sad to me is that people on here claim all the time that quality died in the '80s and early '90s...yet the cars we had were great. My dad's '85 Calais that he traded in for that '91 Grand Am needed nothing in 115k miles. My '89 Camaro liked to eat reman alternators, otherwise it was great too for 13 years and 94k miles. My '95 Grand Am I sold in 2002 with 125k miles on it is STILL being driven by the girl I sold it to with nearly 200k on it, running strong.
I look at my cars as investments in the future...pure and simple. It won't help the domestics sell more cars to me now, but it will later. My wife's '04 Comp G will still be reliable at 150k, IMO. I'm thoroughly impressed with the strength of the '03+ HD Rams...other than the typical ball joint/tie rod end issues that plague ALL HD trucks, they're extremely reliable...far better than most GM/Ford loyalists would give them credit for. My Camaros are driven so little, day-to-day reliability isn't as important...but I wouldn't hesitate to drive my '91 on a 2,000 mile road trip somewhere tomorrow. Its proved to be more reliable than I expected, having put around 10k miles on it in 3 years of ownership.
I know when the market turns around, my wife and I pay down her student loans, pay off the truck etc., a GM sedan will replace the Comp G. It'll be awhile from now, but I have complete faith in the products...
Right from the '79 Chevette and '73 Camaro my parents owned when I was born, through the '08 Explorer, '05 TrailBlazer, '02 Formula and '03 Explorer they own now, they've never been stranded, ever...nor have they ever had a truly fatal repair needed. Same goes for myself as well.
The biggest repairs they've had? A '91 Grand Am SE H.O. Quad 4 cracked a head in '98 with 85k on it...that sucked. $1,000 later, it was driven to 155k before it was donated to charity. To be frank, the closest thing to a lemon they've owned is their current '03 Explorer Limited...the 4.6 flat sucks in it. With 65k miles on it, they just had all the HLA's replaced on the RH head because it rapped worse than Coolio on start-up for the first few minutes. 3 months later, its rapping again. It also has a case of dissappearing coolant, which baffles the dealer, my father, myself etc. It doesn't leak it...it doesn't appear to burn it...but its going somewhere, and no one can figure out where. However, the car was flawless until this last summer, but around 60k things started going downhill fast...2 wheel bearings, 6 disc fried, engine issues...they've spent over $2k on it since August, and it still isn't right
Yet meanwhile, my dad's '05 TB LT just passed 105k, with no issues. ONE REPAIR in that time...a squeaky idler pulley. Pretty flawless IMO. All this crap with the '03 Explorer happened 2 months after they bought the '08. I doubt they would have bought the '08 if they knew the '03 was about to give them major troubles...
They still would've bought American, but one has to wonder...how many other crappy Explorers are out there that are tarnishing Ford's image? Among many other crappy models from other domestic makes? I know the Japanese aren't flawless either...but its gonna take more time. What is sad to me is that people on here claim all the time that quality died in the '80s and early '90s...yet the cars we had were great. My dad's '85 Calais that he traded in for that '91 Grand Am needed nothing in 115k miles. My '89 Camaro liked to eat reman alternators, otherwise it was great too for 13 years and 94k miles. My '95 Grand Am I sold in 2002 with 125k miles on it is STILL being driven by the girl I sold it to with nearly 200k on it, running strong.
I look at my cars as investments in the future...pure and simple. It won't help the domestics sell more cars to me now, but it will later. My wife's '04 Comp G will still be reliable at 150k, IMO. I'm thoroughly impressed with the strength of the '03+ HD Rams...other than the typical ball joint/tie rod end issues that plague ALL HD trucks, they're extremely reliable...far better than most GM/Ford loyalists would give them credit for. My Camaros are driven so little, day-to-day reliability isn't as important...but I wouldn't hesitate to drive my '91 on a 2,000 mile road trip somewhere tomorrow. Its proved to be more reliable than I expected, having put around 10k miles on it in 3 years of ownership.
I know when the market turns around, my wife and I pay down her student loans, pay off the truck etc., a GM sedan will replace the Comp G. It'll be awhile from now, but I have complete faith in the products...
I've never known anyone to have problems with American cars like that are described by people who say they have so called "lemons".
I think these people are going in with a mindset that American cars are worse and therefore will take any little problem, magnify it, and count it towards being a lemon.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,376
From: Sarasota FL
I'll never forget a customer I had one day...probably the biggest b!tch I've ever dealt with. She came in here with a major chip on her shoulder. She had already decided she was replacing her '04, 35k mile Liberty with a new CRV. She wanted me to look at purchasing it wholesale from her. I think at the time (Summer 2006), it was worth about $11,500 wholesale...Kelly was $12,500. She was livid with me that I would only give her $11,500 for it...
Mind you, the dumb b!tch wasn't even buying a car from me.....
So anyway, as an aside to her tirade, I asked her why she wanted a CRV, and what was so bad about the Liberty? "Oh, you mean THAT pile of crap?" she said. "That's the worst vehicle I've ever had! We'll NEVER buy another Jeep!" I asked her what had happened to it. She responded "well first off, that ball joint recall was asinine!" Mind you, this was a voluntary recall Chrysler announced back then, and we never had an issue getting parts for a customer. This was not a big deal. I asked her what else was wrong with it...and she said "well, that's enough isn't it?"
ONE BALL JOINT RECALL IN 35,000 MILES....and the car was a POS to her??
I told her to enjoy changing the timing belt and water pump in her new CRV every 60k miles or so, that Honda had a service department for a reason (because ALL CARS BREAK), and that if she didn't like her car because of a NO COST RECALL, that she needed more help than I could provide her with.
With a puzzled look on her face, I walked away. I just can't deal with retarded people...
Mind you, the dumb b!tch wasn't even buying a car from me.....
So anyway, as an aside to her tirade, I asked her why she wanted a CRV, and what was so bad about the Liberty? "Oh, you mean THAT pile of crap?" she said. "That's the worst vehicle I've ever had! We'll NEVER buy another Jeep!" I asked her what had happened to it. She responded "well first off, that ball joint recall was asinine!" Mind you, this was a voluntary recall Chrysler announced back then, and we never had an issue getting parts for a customer. This was not a big deal. I asked her what else was wrong with it...and she said "well, that's enough isn't it?"
ONE BALL JOINT RECALL IN 35,000 MILES....and the car was a POS to her??
I told her to enjoy changing the timing belt and water pump in her new CRV every 60k miles or so, that Honda had a service department for a reason (because ALL CARS BREAK), and that if she didn't like her car because of a NO COST RECALL, that she needed more help than I could provide her with.
With a puzzled look on her face, I walked away. I just can't deal with retarded people...
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