I keep hearing that American doesn't need 3 car companies, but...
12-08-2008, 12:31 PM
#16
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The results of that poll show that 40% of the public don't feel US automakers make what they want, which means that 60% DO!
If you had taken that poll back some years ago, no doubt those numbers would have been at the very least, reversed.
I have no problems with those numbers, and I can easily see them. US makers have come a long way in the past 4 years. Those numbers will improve within the next 2. Ford is going to be a much different company by then.... and GM is going to be better.
If you had taken that poll back some years ago, no doubt those numbers would have been at the very least, reversed.
I have no problems with those numbers, and I can easily see them. US makers have come a long way in the past 4 years. Those numbers will improve within the next 2. Ford is going to be a much different company by then.... and GM is going to be better.
The poll very specifically asked if they were capable. It didn't say "do US automakers currently make a car you'd want".
12-08-2008, 12:40 PM
#17
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People that don’t go out and NOT buy something from GM or Ford or Chrysler because they hate America; they buy what’s best for them and their needs and wants.
The real danger for the U.S. and its future is if the measurement of “patriotism” is to be determined based on whether someone buys or not buys something offered by the Detroit Three - God help us us such a shallow, inconsequential measuring stick for patriotism is to be the norm.
12-08-2008, 12:45 PM
#18
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Pure, homogenized Bovine Scatology.
People that don’t go out and NOT buy something from GM or Ford or Chrysler because they hate America; they buy what’s best for them and their needs and wants.
The real danger for the U.S. and its future is if the measurement of “patriotism” is to be determined based on whether someone buys or not buys something offered by the Detroit Three - God help us us such a shallow, inconsequential measuring stick for patriotism is to be the norm.
People that don’t go out and NOT buy something from GM or Ford or Chrysler because they hate America; they buy what’s best for them and their needs and wants.
The real danger for the U.S. and its future is if the measurement of “patriotism” is to be determined based on whether someone buys or not buys something offered by the Detroit Three - God help us us such a shallow, inconsequential measuring stick for patriotism is to be the norm.
12-08-2008, 12:49 PM
#19
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Moving on, we are in a serious war now and likely will be for some time.
In any case, we have a vibrant and, even in the current economy, a healthy American auto industry; it just doesn't happen to have GM, Ford, or Chrysler in the names.
12-08-2008, 01:01 PM
#20
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What we have (other than the Big3) is a compromised, subsidized, low-level, assembly biased auto industry which yields far less benefit without a promise of long-term presence. This lesser industry itself is dependent on the continued existence of the Big3 to not only secure its supply chain, but to provide the business case for its continued production here. All of which supports a diminished standard of living and promotes a has been, failure mentality.
Anything else is just a lie told by the likes of the hypocrite Shelby.
Anything else is just a lie told by the likes of the hypocrite Shelby.
12-08-2008, 01:04 PM
#21
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Not surprising; you miss the point entirely.
Moving on, we are in a serious war now and likely will be for some time.
In any case, we have a vibrant and, even in the current economy, a healthy American auto industry; it just doesn't happen to have GM, Ford, or Chrysler in the names.
Moving on, we are in a serious war now and likely will be for some time.
In any case, we have a vibrant and, even in the current economy, a healthy American auto industry; it just doesn't happen to have GM, Ford, or Chrysler in the names.
Who are vibrant all American winners that are moving steel?
All of the transplant, not actually American, car makers are down in numbers
too... Without regard, transplants are not local business.
My pal who is with Ferrari tells me that their business has, for all purposes, died with the death of leasing. The lease market rules the exotic market.
Nissan has backtracked on their pullout from shows... but they are crying poormouth, Toyoda's Toyota is down, Honda is making downturned cashflow reasons behind their retreat from F1...
I'll grant there is good product to be had. But..."Vibrant" business?
I'm all ears...
My read is that the whole industry is down in double digits..
I'm heading to P.R.I. this week and expect to see worried faces at every turn. I expect to see some clever folks out of business.
Last edited by 1fastdog; 12-08-2008 at 01:18 PM.
12-08-2008, 01:06 PM
#22
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Not surprising; you miss the point entirely.
Moving on, we are in a serious war now and likely will be for some time.
In any case, we have a vibrant and, even in the current economy, a healthy American auto industry; it just doesn't happen to have GM, Ford, or Chrysler in the names.
Moving on, we are in a serious war now and likely will be for some time.
In any case, we have a vibrant and, even in the current economy, a healthy American auto industry; it just doesn't happen to have GM, Ford, or Chrysler in the names.
12-08-2008, 01:12 PM
#23
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12-08-2008, 01:12 PM
#24
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Robert, with all due respect, what are these American car companies which are healthy? No Ford, GM, and Chrysler...
Who are vibrant all American winners that are moving steel?
All of the transplant, not actually American, car makers are down in numbers
too...
My pal who is with Ferrari tells me that their business has, for all purposes, died with the death of leasing.
Nissan has backtracked on their pullout from shows... but they are crying poormouth, Toyoda's Toyota is down, Honda is making down cashflow reasons behind their retreat from F1...
I'll grant there is good product to be had. But..."Vibrant"?
I'm all ears...
Who are vibrant all American winners that are moving steel?
All of the transplant, not actually American, car makers are down in numbers
too...
My pal who is with Ferrari tells me that their business has, for all purposes, died with the death of leasing.
Nissan has backtracked on their pullout from shows... but they are crying poormouth, Toyoda's Toyota is down, Honda is making down cashflow reasons behind their retreat from F1...
I'll grant there is good product to be had. But..."Vibrant"?
I'm all ears...
The differentiation will be in who is strong enough financially to weather the recession and/or what companies are innovative enough to generate enough sales to at least tread water and stay afloat.
Perhaps "vibran" is too strong a word but there are/will be nameplates who still make a profit this year (albeit small than they would like) - recessions do take their toll and do, generally prey on the week (businesses) which is the way it's supposed to work.
Last edited by Robert_Nashville; 12-08-2008 at 01:23 PM.
12-08-2008, 01:14 PM
#25
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12-08-2008, 01:20 PM
#26
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I see.
Even so, I'm not sure that MPG/EPA estimates are quite as important to most buyers as you seem to be suggesting.
I do agree that it's desirable for a nameplate to have a "green" car it can hold out as an example (since being "green" is all the rage today) but in terms of overall car buying, I think MPG is but one of many factors people take into consideration why buying a car.
It is true, of course, that foreign nameplates, in general, have done a better job in fighting the "green vehicle" war!
Even so, I'm not sure that MPG/EPA estimates are quite as important to most buyers as you seem to be suggesting.
I do agree that it's desirable for a nameplate to have a "green" car it can hold out as an example (since being "green" is all the rage today) but in terms of overall car buying, I think MPG is but one of many factors people take into consideration why buying a car.
It is true, of course, that foreign nameplates, in general, have done a better job in fighting the "green vehicle" war!
12-08-2008, 01:22 PM
#27
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All the transplants are amounts to a minor local expense for foreign corporations, one that benefits them in the current climate but perhaps not in a climate without the Big3. That's a far cry from being an American industry.
If the climate shifts to an unfavorable one, they will simply cease production here and all cars sold in the US will be imported.
12-08-2008, 01:24 PM
#28
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You're kidding,right?
All the transplants are amounts to a minor local expense for foreign corporations, one that benefits them in the current climate but perhaps not in a climate without the Big3. That's a far cry from being an American industry.
If the climate shifts to an unfavorable one, they will simply cease production here and all cars sold in the US will be imported.
All the transplants are amounts to a minor local expense for foreign corporations, one that benefits them in the current climate but perhaps not in a climate without the Big3. That's a far cry from being an American industry.
If the climate shifts to an unfavorable one, they will simply cease production here and all cars sold in the US will be imported.
And no, I"m not kidding.
Minor expense? The major foreign nameplates already build in the U.S. a majority of the vehicles it sells in the U.S.
Assuming the Detroit Three survive, a likely scenario is that they will continue to shift more and more production outside of CONUS to the point that "foreign" nameplates will likely be selling more cars actually built in the U.S. than the "domestic" nameplates.
Last edited by Robert_Nashville; 12-08-2008 at 01:28 PM.
12-08-2008, 01:24 PM
#29
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The auto industry isn't so special as to afford itself the ability to create a couple dozen competitors that offer roughly the same product. The costs of proliferating so many different brands - the engineering, design, validation, tooling, capitalization, federalization, distribution, and marketing - just isn't supported by the profit margins of the industry.
I mean, come on - how many different DOHC inline-4s and V6s does the world really need? Yeah, sure, when the industry was flush with cash, we could all afford to get emotionally attached to the minor (in the grand scheme of things) differences in different engine architectures. Those days are largely past us, I suspect.
12-08-2008, 01:27 PM
#30
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I take it that you don't work in the auto industry.