Sure ... ingress and egress can be improved over the 3rd/4th Gen F-Car.... just like it was from the C4 Corvette to the C5 Corvette...

That doesn't mean it needs to become 'more like a Malibu than a Corvette" though.

 

Hey Proud...sometimes your posts are so long, I need to digest them in pieces.


I think that you have precisely put your finger on something here.

Many times when I speak to GM reps, I get the impression that they don't want to be bothered with what I want.......I should just buy what they think I should want. After all, they've done the market studies and focus groups....they're information is incontestable. I must conform. Resistance is futile. Good strategy if you are assimilating humans for the Borg......bad if you want to sell alot of cars.


Certainly Ford does market studies and focus groups too....but they seem to use that info with more common sense. They use it to attract new buyers. They'll do things like change tail light designs (after only one year), and bring out new models, (like Mach 1)....solely on the feedback of their enthusiasts. WOW! Imagine that! We couldn't even get GM to give us nice wheels on the Z/28.....maybe their market research told them Z/28 intenders like undersized ugly wheels.

I also agree with you about all the Mustang models. They are not shadowing Camaro, model for model. They are simply coming out with niche models that people want to buy. A strategy that seems to work pretty well.

 

I am not saying it should be more like a Malibu in that it is v6 FWD. I am just saying they should make there product appeal to more consumers. Remember the late '60s when a Chevelle could be driven by your granda in a 4 door wagon form, and could be a street authority in a SS396 package. All consumer needs were met in all ages and sexes. Lets be honest an overweight person will need a crane to get out of a T/A. Mustang is closer in body type to a Taurus than it is to a Corvette. The market has changed, look what Mazda did with the RX8, no more long nosed race cars. WRX, Evolution, Neon SXT, this is going to be the future of "muscle cars". When I can go buy a $20K Neon that will out run a Z28 with a simple waste gate change, and still knock down 30mpg, and save my $7k for something else that is going to be most Americans choice on the matter. Motor Trend called the Firehawk a "huge, tire smoking, teen-machine", GM needs to shake that image. (All except for the "tire smokin" part)

 

I see your point, but I guess I just view today's market differently.

I see a lot of lower volume (not really LOW volume, just lower volume) vehicles offered that cater to more specialized groups.

Camaro can be that. I don't think it needs to appeal to someone who wants a sports car, to someone who wants a family sedan, to someone who wants a wagon, etc...

Let Camaro be Camaro, and let Malibu be Malibu. Let Malibu Maxx be Malibu Maxx, etc....

The business case just needs to be made to realistically show sales, which are not going to be 200,000 units anymore... share invisible parts that are appropriate, but make a unique car that hits it's target like a sharpshooter with a rifle... not a wannabe with a shotgun...

 

As much as I hate to say it, I think Camaro needs to get out of Corvettes shadow, and take their own direction. Instead of detuned Corvette motors, lets add all new state of the art exclusive to only Camaro parts in the new one. I think the prototype pic running around is a step in the right direction, but I just fear it will be taken as a copy of the Retro thing Ford has been doing for the last few years. GM has two RWD supercars(F/C), is that the direction they will keep? I would not be surprised to see the Camaro get 4 doors and fill the Caprice hole(heaven forbid).

 

I think using Corvette parts is not a bad thing at all, it only makes things better. The only thing that the Camaro uses from the Corvette is the motor and to a lesser extent, the transmission. Don't forget that the Camaros purpose is not to be a supercar, it is to have inexpensive rwd V8 performance for almost anyone.

 

First of all I don't know if you noticed GM makes hundreds of different vehicles around the world. GM probably has about 20 (or less) different motors available. The only two motors that are brand/car specific are the Northstar and the LS-6 . These motors are in the flagship models (junk if you ask me). A Camaro will have to share alot of different parts with other models if it will be produced. I hare to say it but if GM brings out another Camaro it will not have its own specific drivetrain. We will be lucky if we get Corvette leftovers (thats not so bad).

 

Hey guys, great discussion. My $.02. I was looking for "a hot rod". Now hot rod means many different things to many different people. I am not old enough to have owned a 1st gen camaro, but I was/am in love with the '69. Also was interested in an old Impala (dog dished sleeper). I ran across a 4th gen camaro that was for sale- told it was a Z-28. Cool I thought, I'll go look at it. The owner saysoh by the way if you don't want to waste your time, it doesn't have AC. Needless to say, I found a 1LE car and took it from him in2 days for a great price. Point being, I probably wouldn't have bought it if it wasn't a 1 out of 135 1LE. That designation along with the production numbers is what sold me. I already knew the Camaro was a hot rod(in my eyes) but the special limited production 1LE option is what got me off. Couldn't we bring the 1LE back as the "this is not for women and children model, and if you want to have power options and be comfortable than go buy something else chevy offers"? I love that I own a Z-28, but I really get my rocks off knowing I own a 1LE.
Just my thought.Take it for what it's worth = $.02.

 

I agree with you. But do we really need an SS? If GM wants to save money they should just have two models like the vette.

1) Base model: V8 (300hp)with a 6spd, optional 5spd auto all the other dodads you can get that will decrease performance (stereos, t- top, and so on).


2) Z28: Think Z06.

Oh and some nice quality materials inside (think VW), be a little practical (because most people don't have the luxury of owning more than one vehicle) and have some nice agressive styling (don't think Z06).

 

That's what we want the Z28 to be.

 

I have no problem with Camaro sharing Coevette components.....I might have a problem with the Corvette team controlling the Camaro's destiny though. Camaro will always get the sh!tty end of the stick under that chain of command. It needs it's own dedicated team....with people who are not afraid to push the envelope for Camaro.

After all....Team Mustang is full of people like that; and they have the authority to do what's right for the car.

See the difference.

 

They should push the Corvette farther away from the Camaro then.

 

I agree... while it does make sense to have Team Camaro and Team Corvette be one entity.... it makes Camaro too much of an afterthought to some...

If everyone were as excited and dedicated to Camaro as Scott is, we'd be fine.

 

Really, I could go either way on this. The "SS" designation on Camaro doesn't evoke much emotion in me....not like it does on other cars. I think Proud Pony touched on this earlier. When I think "SS"....I think Chevelle, Impala, Nova, Monte Carlo, Cobalt (j/k ).

We need a base model....certainly.
We need Z/28....because it represents the essence of Camaro DNA.

But, I also think we need something else. Call it SS, Type LT, Berlinetta....I don't know, maybe even a new name. I also always thought the early 3rd gen F41 package (sort of a Y87 type package, but more comprehensive...and also available with V8)was a good idea too.

 

If the Camaro did get their own design team the it still would get the short end of the stick. If there wasn't any corporate politics maybe the Camaro would be a better car. You also have to remember that the Mustang is Fords performance benchmark and Corvette is GM's. Also Ford invented the pony car, and GM some where along the lines lost the idea (at least after the 3rd gen).

I have a question. How come the 1LE wasn't the Z28 package? It had all the perfomance stuff. The 1LE would have been a good (not great) Z28. Think about it no fancy scoops. spoilers, ect. Just all the performance goodies.