Since I've been caught up to speed with the upcoming Mustangs (including the specs) this post by Teal below got me thinking.

When someone's wrong, I have no problem in pointing it out. When someone is right, I have no problem in pointing that out either. In this instance, Teal, you were right.


BUT....what's even more shocking is after what I have been posting for years, I should have known better. The Mustang is a far improved performance car. Anyone mistaking this one for the 2010 will be in for either a shock or treat, depending on how you feel about Mustangs.


The new Mustang 5.0 engine puts out over 412 horsepower (the output hasn't been finalized, but I'd expect 415 to 420 by the time it hits showrooms). Yet, it weighs no more than the 4.6 it replaces, despite having 2 additional cams and alot of other new features.

That means all the weight (and extra 250 to 300 pounds) is in new hardware, upgrades, and making sure the car doesn't feel as overpowered as the old 5.0 Mustangs did (when Ford put up to 225+ horsepower in a chassis designed for no more than 170 and the perfectly balenced Fox felt as if it would spin around and take out everything in it's path in a corner.... if it didn't rip itself apart under hard acceleration first).


Some weight hits are obvious. The new Mustang carries a 6 speed transmission instead of the current 5. It's a heavier & beefier unit. The second big hit is the new brakes. Big iron 13 inch vented discs with new twin piston calipers. The rest of the driveline had been beefed up... mostly by stealing parts from the GT500s indestructable components parts bin.

In fact, if you want to oversimplify it, you could almost say the new Mustang GT is a GT500 with a lighter engine since there has been alot of items standardized (cuts production cost of the GT500 and makes a more capable Mustang GT)


Then there's the many little things that add up. From braces and additional metal that adds on a few pounds here, a dozen pounds there, to a larger cooling system and an engine that holds 8 quarts of oil (extra fluids also contributes weight that adds up).

The weight isn't finalized, but I wouldn't expect it to be much more than 20 or 30 pounds lighter than the weight mentioned in Ford's press releases (I'd expect about 3850 as the final weight). That equals about a 300 pound gain for an extra 100 horsepower.

Ford could have simply stuck in the new 5.0 to the current 5 speed manual and called it a day. The car would have still weighed the 3550-3600 it weighs today. But to make a car that brakes with the best, has a modern 6 speed manual, and to have a car that makes the most of the added power (while keeping the same durability and NVH standards), things were done that added weight. The exact point that some of us have been making here for more than a couple of years.

I think we should start ending this insane horsepower race (400 horsepower today is something like 470-500 under the old "gross HP" standard of the muscle car era) before we wind up having 600 horsepower cars with 900 horsepower capable chassis that weigh as much as a Tahoe.

Time to focus on getting the same with less. And perhaps save some gas and regain handling "snap" (instead of only capabilities) in cars.


BTW:
And this is about the ultimate irony (and will put things well into perspective), the new Mustang GT will have roughly the same horsepower and torque as the stock supercharged "Terminator" Cobra Mustangs (the real output, not the advertised numbers) from earlier this decade, and only about 100 pounds more in weight despite a much larger size, bigger brakes & more heavy duty components.

With it's 3.31 axle, it should have roughly the same grunt and acceleration as the Cobra did.... and only someone with no grip on reality would call those things short of phenominally quick.

That's how crazy things have become.

 

I couldnt agree more

Also living in uncertain times in regard to oil, I would think manufactures would want to increase the MPG of such performance cars.

Not to be the old guy in the room, but I feel we reached our peak when we transitioned from the LT1 to the LS1, the new engine was lighter, more powerful and more efficient. It was a win win. Since then, LS2-LS3, each one less efficient then before.

EVERYTHING is caught up in this horsepower war, we have 260HP minivans, Camry V6's that could jump a sports car off the line, and if it does 0-60 in 7 seconds or more it is considered "slow" by industry standards now. We have really become quite comfortable with speed and power in this last decade.

I'm all for better engineering, less weight, and more MPG. The current 300HP mustang is a great car with a teriffic transmission. (more enjoyable then most 6 speeds) IMO.

 

If you don't mind me asking but where did you get the specs for the upcoming GT? I read thru 94Lightningal's thread and didn't see where they went into detail about the car (although its been a while since I have read the older posts.)

*EDIT* I ssume this is where you are getting your info from:

http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=31645

 

I think a lot of what's enjoyable about older cars is their extreme/one-sided nature. Car manufacturers are now trying to please everyone with every model, so every car gets everything AND the kitchen sink...

The days, nobody wants to be the lame duck in terms of power. It's led to an escalation between all vehicle types.

 

So I take it that it is now accepted that it really will weigh ~3800 lbs? Kinda figured they'd be able keep it closer to the previous GT despite the obvious "opportunities" for it to gain weight w/ the new setup, guess not.

 

*IF* the 2011 Mustang does indeed gain 250-300 lbs over the 2010, count me out as being even sort of a potential buyer - no matter how good the 5.0 is (very similar to my thoughts on Camaro - no matter how good the LS3 is, the overall package is just too porky for me....personal preference).

I will be VERY interested to see the final numbers.

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/28/2...with-a-5-0-v8/

3rd Paragraph. We'll see.

 

The V6 does not weigh 3750lbs, and the GT does not weigh 4000lbs.

You have to listen to what is said, not what is written as an estimate in a PDF file.

The weight of all of the Mustangs, will be very similar to the 2010's, with the exception of the GT500, which gets a large weight decrease.

 

If all of this is indeed true then I am pretty much sold.

 

I usually agree with you guionM, but I think you are slightly off in this regard. Yes I do think the 2011 mustang will gain weight but not as much as in the pre-released specs. Just looking at the specs why would the auto coupe and convertible weigh the same? I think these are just weight est. But we will see soon enough. Remember ford is known to under promise and over deliver these past few years!

 

I'm not sure why those est. weights are on the Ford website, but they have been contradicted by various sources, including Ford's own press releases.

 

I wonder if some of these erroneous weight numbers start showing up as rumors because people misinterpret the EPA fuel economy and emissions weight classes (potentially including employees of the OEMs themselves).

When cars are tested for emissions and fuel economy, they are put into weight classes. I believe these classes are not simply the curb weight of the car. I think they include a passenger or two and / or some nominal load. So a 4600 lb crossover might test in the 5000 lb weight class. Perhaps the Mustang V6 is to be tested in the 3750 lb class, and the heavier GT will be in the 4000 lb class, or something like that.

It has been years since I've been around any of that stuff (I transferred from the Milford Proving Grounds 4.5 years ago), so I don't recall the specifics. Just speculating a bit as to why we see such numbers paraded around.

There is no way the new GT somehow leapfrogged the GT500 to 4000 lbs in weight, when the GT500 is in the 3900 lb range.

 

A good Ford source, on another site, says that Ford is sandbagging the weights. As has been stated before, they are having a bit of fun.

The key being the word "estimated."

The GT gains a small amount of weight, but nothing to be concerned about.

 

And then there's the demographic that really, really like the sound of a nice V8 but don't particularly care for everything else that comes with having to buy a 400+++ HP vehicle to get that V8.

 

Fords WAY off on the estimating lately... I assure you