305fan

yeah--that 360 is a POS.

Hey GM even Dodge is getting witht the program.
I'm sure an SRT-8 wouldn't be too exspensive and
they will offer them in reg cab AND ext cab.

Wow! A choice

Johnny Hunkins

I wouldn't get excited about affordable performance trucks just yet. The S-10 has always had an engine bay big enough for whatever smallblock was around (including the LS1), yet GM never put it in. Now GM is supposed to get religion over night? The Colorado is the same as the S-10 in the respect that the V8 will fit (the I5 is actually longer than the V8 LS1!!!). They won't put a V8 in because they don't need to. The smaller in-line engines will be able to meet their requirements for power and still be best in class. I have even been assured this by GM Powertrain VP Tom Stephens.

Which brings me to my next observation. The Dakota won't be getting a serious V8 any time soon either. Dakota never had a "serious" V8 engine and it's not getting one now. (Remember it wasn't that long ago that DCX downgraded the 5.9 Dakota R/T's tow rating which precipitated that class-action lawsuit.) Putting in the Hemi would be the stupidest move because they need all their Hemi production for the 3/4 ton trucks. It's all about profit, not power. Putting a Hemi in a Dakota would be like giving away the farm. They just don't need to do it--there's no competitive reason to do it.

DCX (like GM) keeps talking about all these great performance vehicles they're going to build. Oh, they'll build them--both GM and DCX--but we won't be able to afford them. GM wants you to buy an Ecotech Cavalier, slap their $3000 blower kit on, and go low 15s. So have a freakin' Coke and a smile...

You want performance? Buy one of the half million used V8 F-bodies that already roams the earth.

Z284ever

I think if you're looking for a cheap sporty pickup, it's hard to beat the S10/Sonoma with the ZQ8 sport package.

For under $18K, you can get a neat looking, nicely equipped, decent handling RWD vehicle.

I prefer the Sonoma version myself....but for 2003 the ZQ8 S10 gets the much nicer looking Sonoma ZQ8 wheels.

Johnny Hunkins

For $18K I can buy two used LT1 Corvettes, or a new Cavalier Z24.

How's that for perspective?

Z284ever

Fair enough. But then you wouldn't have that new car smell...and the LS sport coupe has replaced the Z24.

305fan

Johnny----I read in M/T interview about the Hemi V8- they have a capacity to build 440,000 engines a year---that's more then the total for ALL Dodge Ram Pickups (that includes all engines--not just one, 1500, 2500, 3500) So they cleary wouldn't be blowing all the HEMI production on Dakotas.

So, where is the extra, "UNUSED" Hemi's going to go?

And Dakota DID HAVE the "serious" engine---that POS 360---it was the best Dodge had at the time.
That engine must be nearing the end--so they'll put the replacement, the 5.7 litre Hemi in, no?

They ditched the 5.2 for the 4.7---why wouldnt, when they ditch the 5.9, go for the 5.7?

How is this scernario so unbeleiveable?

Dodge never had a "competitive" reason to build
the Dakota R/T either. Ergo, seems likely they would build an SRT-8, Hemi Dakota

Sorry S-10s are old--design and powertrain wise--
they are cheap though


And unless they have a turbo I5, a Dakota with the 4.7 has more hp and torque then a NA I5.
And when GM builds a turbo production I5---I'll eat my hat. Remeber the turbo Quad 4 concept? See my point?

Not bashing ya, I like freindly discussion but my points are logical (if you can actaully understand what I say

OnyxXtreme

those damn S-Series could handle
i had an S10, put a 5/6 drop on it (about $300 worth of cheap goodies) and it would demolish my Z28 around a corner.......stock 98 Z that is
of course it was pathetically slow, and rode like CRAP
still was a fun truck though

Johnny Hunkins

Please, don't misunderstand me. I would love it if Dodge would dump a Hemi in the Dakota. I don't care what name is on the fender, I just want to go fast for cheap.

That's exactly the problem--auto makers don't want me to go fast for cheap. It's a lot better for them if I go fast for expensive.

Dodge (like GM) historically shows no interest in going fast with trucks, and now they want to go fast with two trucks? I'm not buying into such wishful thinking. (the 5.9 R/T doesn't count for obvious reasons--it wasn't fast.)

Just because the engine plant can make 440,000 units a year doesn't mean they will, in fact, they probably won't even approach half that. CAFE standards and the politics of union contracts will see to that (i.e. once you let the genie out of the bottle and add a shift, you can't put him back in).

Notwithstanding, Dodge won't need to build Hemi Dakotas because, outside of a few of us performance guys holding out in the Alamo, consumers just don't care.

305fan

good points, I kind of understand where your coming from. I personally don't see that
SRT-10 lasting too long--it's too exspensive.
Maybe Dodge doesn't want a cheap perfromance truck but too exspensive and it won't sell--maybe theres a middle ground?

routesixtysixer

Well, guys, I love my Ext. Cab Dakota Sport 5.2... I also love my 01 Formula. But they are two different vehicles meant for two different purposes. The Formula is fun, but I won't be pulling any horse trailers with it! BTW, you can get a 5.9 Dakota without buying an R/T, ya know. I don't see why it's so hard to fathom Dodge slapping a 5.7 into the Dakota to replace the phased-out (and incredibly ancient) 5.9. The 5.7 Hemi gets better gas mileage, better emissions and is going to be used across their truck line anyway. Makes sense. Keep in mind that this new engine was designed first and foremost as a TRUCK engine, not a high-performance car engine. 345 cubes, 345 hp, 375 ft/lb makes for a great truck engine for towing and hauling.... you remember, what a truck was for before everyone and his brother decided they needed a pickup truck for............... uh, um, er.... actually, I don't really know WHAT everyone seems to need a truck for. I looked at an R/T... pretty useless as a tow/haul vehicle. I guess if you just gotta have a Mopar and it's gotta have a V-8 and rear drive. Which brings up my problem with the new Colorado. It is supposed to be a mid-size, but won't have anything more powerful than a 5-banger. Sure, it'll have plenty of horsepower. So does a Honda S2000. What's the tow rating on an S2000? How much fun is it gonna be to haul a 5,000 lb trailer with a 5-cylinder? Up a hill. In 100 degree heat. With the A/C going. Not gonna happen! This is why Dodge builds a V-8 Dakota, and why they sell plenty of them... no competition. I drove full-sized Chevy's for years and, for me, the Dakota is a much better package. Now if I could just figure out a way to stick an LS1 into that Dakota....................

Johnny Hunkins

I think it is fair to say that the S-10 didn't attract very many traditional truck customers for exactly the reason you say--it couldn't do very much work. I don't know how the new Colorado will compare, but my understanding is that it will be marginally larger but basically fill the same shoes as the S-10 (i.e. not a serious work truck).

Nevertheless, the Dakota is in a distinctly larger class. It was designed from the outset to be a smaller version of a real work truck. I find no flaw in the logic of replacing the 5.9 with the 5.7 except for the fact that it makes way too much power for the size of the vehicle (again, thinking like a brand manager or a product planner, not an enthusiast--and you get one guess who makes those decisions). As far as Dakota goes, I think it's far more likely to see incremental improvements or displacement increases to the smaller 4.7-liter engine--itself quite a capable performer.

routesixtysixer

What's too much power? What about Ford's Lightning? This is where Dodge has a golden opportunity. They could easily build a 5.7 Hemi Dakota for not much more than a current R/T.

305fan

They could (being the key word) easily build this and not charge too much but will they?

Chevy past up the opportunity to build a 2WD, reg cab 6.0 Silverado a couple years ago but didn't.

Too much power? Well in the midsize truck segment
you'd have a truck puting out of 100hp then competitors and even more then full size.

Quite a jump form where they are now.

But, hell ya, I agree with you and hope they do- I mean they techincally have the capacity and it would be a waste just to use that great Hemi in a Ram,

Red89GTA

You ask where all those extra hemis are going?

Look to the next gen car lines. I believe that the 300N will be gettig a hemi, and if they make the Charger(fingers crossed), how could you not put the hemi in it? I doubt that they would even use all of that capacity while filling demand for those cars as well, as I'm sure that they will be limited in production numbers.

Who knows, maybe someone at chrysler really wants to beat the Lightning truck vs truck.