My '01 GP's warranty expires in 3 days ( ), so I brought it in for its last little niggling warranty items, and the loaner is an '04 GP GT1. Its the first time I've driven a new GP since July, and the first time since I've owned mine. All I can say is...hmmm...

I see why Car and Driver ragged on it when they did a Short Take on a GT2, whereas they praised the previous gen GP when compared to its competition back in '97. While I was very impressed with the Comp Gs I drove back when I worked at the dealer, this more ho-hum example of a GP leaves me cold. Without a sunroof, it feels so tight up front...maybe its the way the overhead console comes down. Its harder to see out of this car than the old gen. While GM thinks they gave this one better materials, I agree with C&D and beg to differ. It feels bigger than the previous gen even though it isn't...probably because its harder to see out of.

I remembered loving the Comp Gs, and its amazing what a different impression they make than the run-of-the-mill models. Sunroofs are mandatory. Leather, while not standard, should be the only way to get a GP...the cloth feels downmarket. The performance of the supercharged series III is excellent, and the handling is amazing. When I ordered them for the lot, for $30k with everything but Monsoon, I felt they were an awesome deal. But to me, the driving feel of a normal GT seems dated. I think its the overall tight feel inside, and the plain cheap interior panels. I don't understand why the previous GP's interior has such a bad rap...I think the dash and door panel materials are just fine. This one? Not so much...and I know I'm not alone among GP owners.

Of course, the 3800 and 4T65E are smoother than ever, and are the 2 things I love about my older GP the most. I want to smack every auto writer who b!tches about the 3800 being loud...just because its old, I don't see why they call it loud. Its as quiet as any Honda 4 banger I've ever seen.

How well are these new GPs selling? I will say one thing...I don't think this current GP will replace mine as a daily driver. Although, they will probably have a revised GP before I replace mine anyways I like mine way too much...and its a TWO DOOR My apologies to those who have bought '04s (Darth Xed and BigDarknFast come to mind)...I don't mean to rag on your cars. I was just really excited to get back in an '04 for a couple days...and am surprised by my thoughts on it.

 

Had an '04 GT2? as a courtesy car some time ago and was also unimpressed for a number of reasons including the back seat, sound system and HUD controller disguised as iDrive. I preferred the previous GTP that I had as a courtesy car.

Doesn't matter in that I feel very strongly that I will never get anything other than a RWD or true AWD.

 

Jason - thanks for your unbiased post on the GP... I do agree with many of your points especially about how the car is much more complete when delivered with CompG and leather. But I do not agree about the greenhouse... I traded in my 98 GTP and 02 TA on my 04 CompG and have been happy ever since (except for... *sniff* missing my TA on warm summer nights ). One thing I liked about the TA was the agressively sloped and racy windshield angle... it contrasted a lot with the bulbous upright windshield and greenhouse on my 98 GTP. So I for one am glad to have the sleek front and rear glass on my 04 GP. As for the interior panels... the 04 interior is better in just about every way imaginable IMHO. the door panels for example have a better, non-cheap texture to them, and the panel gaps among panels are smaller. Cupholders vastly improved. Entire rear seat folds down instead of the ridiculous tiny pass thru slot. Dome lights illuminate better. Seat shapes are much more modern and supportive. And on and on. How anyone could consider even the base 04 GP interior a downgrade is totally beyond me. The interior is a flat out home run for the new GP.

 

I can definitely grant you the panel gaps...they are better for sure. And I already hate no fold-down back seat. I haven't used the cupholders, so I can't comment I guess what I am not liking are the general textures GM touted as so "upgraded." You like them...I guess the textures just don't seem to do it for me personally. I like the metal door handles, but not so much the dash facing. There are certain things I like over mine, and some I just don't. I admit to having ALWAYS liked the '97-'03 dash layout...while the big central speedo in the '04 is nice, I guess I just prefer the old layout, which is of course personal opinion.

Maybe the difference in feeling with the greenhouse stems from my car being a 2 door, and this a 4. But I didn't think so... Oh well, off to drive it again...I'll pay attention to some of the things you mentioned

 

I have to agree a lot here. While I have yet to drive a 04 GP of any variance. I've sat in a few and can only comment on the interior quality. To me I too feel the interior while looking much better the materials don't feel a lot better. Visually the interior has a better look than the 97-03 GP's but I doubt the materials used are actually better because while they feel different they still have a cheaper feel to them. Now this is a direct comparison to the 04 GTO I got to sit in only days before. SO maybe the GTO wrecked it for the GP. But to me its head and shoulders above the GP in interior feel, quality and looks. JMO

Good points Jason E,

 

Well, after a drive back and forth with it to work today, I wanted to elaborate on some previous points. I like...

-The big, central speedo
-The chrome door handles
-The fold down back seat
-GT2s and up have the fold down passenger seat
-New window switches
-The radio is easy to adjust if your hand is rested on the shifter (not an issue for those with wheel controls)
-The seats are way more contoured than the previous, flat seats

I don't like...
-The rubbery material of the door panels. The previous gen had fabric along much of the upper door panel, and was classy looking. This is all rubbery plastic, save for one tiny swath of cloth.
-The black facing around the radio and the left side vents SCREAMS cheap...I don't feel any materials in my GP does.
-Why does a light in the center of the dash have to remind you the fogs are on? What a poor, obnoxious location.
-The overhead console makes the headliner look like its falling down.
-The cloth to me screams "burlap," and did to the 10-15 customers I showed a new GP to when I was still at the dealer. The leather is fantastic, but this cloth is a dissapointment, and not only to me, but other GP drivers.
-The overall exterior style, while definitely being more modern than the previous gen, doesn't have that flowing look of the old car. It looks squared and creased off. Granted, this is subjective.

I know I am being very critical here, but I want to love this car. I do admit, a Comp G with a roof, leather, and much nicer wheels makes a much better impression. But this is the volume GP, and the one I could most afford used to replace mine down the road. I want to love it...but I just can't. Maybe a G6 will make a nice replacement in 4-5 years, unless they do at least a cosmetic overhaul and address some interior issues. The handling, tranny and engine are great...I just can't seem to love the look.

 

Interesting points Jason... I was thinking today too... what exactly is better about my 04's interior? Here's a list of some more items:

1. I agree the door-mounted switchgear for windows is better than that on the 97's. Simpler and more positive in operation than the previous switches, and driver can more easily locate the desired window switch without looking at it since they are all taller. Driver can also determine which mirror is being adjusted by the four-way rocker switch just by feel of the selector, unlike the old one on the 97 which always beckoned you to look to see where it was pointing. Trunk remote open is more convenient, is now on door instead of in glove box.

2. I had auto AC on my 98 GTP. What a MASSIVE pain it was to control! I could not use the thermostat feature, it was really the temp of the DASH not the interior temp so always drove to that. Never kept it in auto, so I was perenially squinting at the little thermo number digits. My 04's HVAC controls are much simpler, easy to turn and all functions are infinitely adjustable.

3. Small item - the LED's for seat heater and rear defrost are brighter and easier to see in daytime.

4. I can adjust direction of any air vent without looking at it, totally by feel, in the dark. Not on my 97!

5. Cruise control lever is much more intuitive and positive in operation. No more guessing when I tap it to increase/decrease just one MPH - a dynamic 'cartoon' shows in the HUD to acknowledge each cruise speed change! Animations in the HUD too for stereo changes, XM station NAMES show in the HUD, temp and compass in HUD, I could go on forever about the HUD enhancements!

6. DIC vastly enhanced and more intuitive... now has transmission oil temp, battery voltage, and two tripmeters built in.

7. The new parchment shade vastly better than the grim taupe on my 98. Much more bright and cheerful.

8. Steering wheel design more classy than on the 97's... silver inlays, more positive action on the buttons, center insignia emblem are all upgrades.

9. RDS stereo vastly improved over previous unit... eg, 6-disk in dash changer and XM fully integrated with HUD and steering wheel.

10. Door pocket storage much larger than on 97's. I also have TWO places to rest my left arm while driving if desired, up on the top sill (even with window shut, not possible on the 97) and down on the armrest.

11. Lock buttons/rods more easy to operate at night. The ones on the 97 were too flush with the door pull handles and impossible to see at night.

12. Seats - much better lateral support, lumbar amplitude, and leather quality. No one talks much about it... ever notice how grainy the door panel inlays were on 97s with leather? It was to match the crude 'buffalo' leather on the seats. (As for cloth inlays... not fond of how far up they went on the 97's due to potential for fading).

13. Things no longer fly out of the storage bin below the stereo head unit like they did on my 97.

As for styling... sure that is subjective. But frankly the look on the 97's is getting old now, 7 years old to be exact, and I enjoy the fresh look of my snow-chomping sport import eater

2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G || Brilliant Red Metallic 1990 IROC-Z Camaro, K&N, Camaro SS takeoff muffler

 

A very fair assessment. I admit, you made some points I did not think of, but some of them definitely apply more to GTPs than the GTs, unfortunately...

1) Agreed...the mirror control on the previous gen sucks Thankfully I am the only one who drives mine, so its a set it and forget it type deal. I wanna look at my mirrors tomorrow though when I get the car back...they are easier for me to see with, leading me to believe the glass area may be larger??

2) Never had Auto AC, and agree it was a PITA. The later, normal dual zone slide controls I love on mine My girlfriend likes it warm, and I like it cool...I thought it was a gimmick until I owned this car!! But oh wait...it isn't on the '04...odd...

3) This one no have heated seats

4) I haven't had my '01 in a climate warm enough yet to use the vents...I bought it 10/03! I'll take your word for it

5) I kinda like old-school GM cruise, although it is severely outdated

6) Agreed the DIC is light years ahead of the old one...I like it A LOT on those that have the package...again, N/A here.

7) No clue

8) ICK, I gotta differ here. I HATE the wheel, and was thinking when I was driving it 20 min ago that it was heinous, and forgot to add it to my list I agree, the metal look is vastly better, but that hub is the oddest looking GM wheel I have ever seen...I like the new Malibu's better! Again, merely difference of opinion...

9) I had the RDS radio in my GA, and agree it is a huge leap...I never understood why the GP was the LAST GM car to keep the old style radio, aside from the Vette.

10) Never used them...take your word for it

11) I dunno...I kinda like the old buttons, and I DON'T like the fact you have to push and hold the unlock just to pop the trunk I agree its a better location than the old one in the glovebox, but why make you hold it? Can't GM afford an extra switch?

12) I have leather in my '01, and conceed here that the new leather is way better. Again, this doesn't apply to this GT1 here. However, I don't mind the graininess of mine, but I do see your point...I just wish there was more material on the new panels...

I agree, the look isn't as fresh as it once was, but I always looked at the '97-'03 GPs as the equivalent of third gens in terms of style. No matter how old the style gets, and no matter how many you see, they just look RIGHT. Style is subjective for sure, but it just seems when the old one came out in '97, I NEVER heard a bad word on the styling. This one? It seems split 50/50. Definitely looks better in darker colors with Comp G wheels.

Definitely, your Comp G settles a lot of my gripes. I think if I had a Comp G, I'd be much more satisfied...or at least a GT2 with a roof and leather. By the way, thanks for not getting bent over me critiquing a car you own...so many people get p!ssed when someone knocks the slightest thing about their car. Its good to have a point/counterpoint type deal, and have no one get mad. I love GPs as much as anyone, and I will say...I'd take a polo green Comp G with graphite leather, a roof and the InfoTech package any day I was just surprised how going from old GT to new GT, how I was kinda under-impressed.

 

I agree it's refreshing to be able to discuss these things without a bunch of flaming. A lot of your points make good sense to me, although I still can't fathom how someone comparing an 04 GP to the previous iteration could come away 'under-impressed'... unless maybe they are driven totally by exterior styling only. In fact that's relevant here; with my 98 GTP sometimes I felt like I was married to a runway model. Everything was subordinate to its looks. Didn't matter that it needed $3500 in warranty repairs (I was SO GLAD I got an extended warranty! Of course I did buy it used at 38k miles...). Didn't matter there were RUST HOLES coming thru the quarter panel by the gas cap hole when I sold it. Didn't matter it only had the tiny rear seat pass-thru when I needed to carry bulky items. Didn't matter there were obvious deficiencies in the interior, like the flat front seats and lack of TapShift. On and on.

I agree, the 97 was a brilliant design, maybe one of GM's best of the 1990's. Sure, it still looks 'right'. So does my IROC-Z... but if I had to drive my Camaro every day it would likely get old quickly, because let's face it, it IS OLD.

My wife and I used the dual zone on my 98 a couple times. We were underwhelmed by the ultimate effectiveness... the air mixes in a couple seconds anyway and car interiors are such a tiny space there is really just one temperature. We have found the best solution is to simply have the one who is too cold to have the vents point at them (if winter) or away from them (if summer). And like you pointed out with the mirror adjust... I drive without a front seat passenger a LOT more than I do with one. So who cares about dual zone, really.

If you ever scrape up the cash to spring for an 04, it might surprise you to know that for anyone with their heart set on having a HUD, the true cost of adding the CompG is only about $800 since the InfoTech pkg (w/the HUD and DIC) is $600 if separate but is included in the $1400 CompG pkg.

I for one would not want another switch just for that function. I don't want my door panels looking like something from a Boeing 747. I do however really like the intuitive combination of these two functions in one button.

I don't buy the implication of the supposed critical importance of the GT1 model and feature/option set. Seriously. How many 97-03 GP's are the lowly SE trim level? Most are GT's or GTP's. The SE's (now the GT1's) were the rental fleet mules. Realistically - most actual buyers/lessees are gunning for a GT2 or GTP nowadays. So that's the real battleground for comparison with other alternative makes and models.

While I was at it... some more 2004 improvements sprang into my head

13) Interior dimensions are not much changed from the 97 to the 04, and it is a mixed bag of upgrades/downgrades... but I did notice the 04 has more front headroom (38.8 vs 38.3) and rear legroom (36.2 vs 35.8).

14) I'm excited about the potential for customization of the DIC by aftermarket PCM tuners. Our main supplier in the GP enthusiast community, DHP, is currently proof-testing a PCM which supplies additional display data to the DIC to help us GP geeks tweak our cars

15) Maybe you hadn't noticed - but another indication of increased interior quality is the flush mounted stereo head and HVAC quadrants. The same units in the 97's were mounted behind a bezel, an arrangement allowing a lot of slop in the event of poor tolerances in mounting the stereo and HVAC heads. The 04's are right up on the bezel and it looks neater.

16) The TCS disable switch is now down on the console, a more intuitive location for this control.

17) Ignition switch is on the dash where you can actually see it while inserting the key (imagine that!)

18) Transitions between TapShift and A4 modes is very graceful and is obvious in the HUD. Upshift and gear select indicators in HUD are useful while putting 4-cyl lightweights in their proper place (behind me ).

19) Near-90 degree opening rear doors are handy for bulky items, and I've also found, are very nice for helping my tykes in and out of their child safety seats.

20) The trunk opening is now 10 inches wider than on the 97's and it makes it easier to get things in and out.

21) Not sure if this is on every trim level but mine has a neat liner on the inside of the trunk lid, very classy for a car in this class. My 98 was bare steel with sharp edges.

22) The GT2/GTP's have a sturdy reversible trunk cargo mat. It works quite well, unlike the hopelessly flimsy and slip-happy one on my 98 GTP.

23) I could write a book about how I enjoy the XM in this car! I am forever spoiled now. Whenever I tune in FM now during rush hour, I'm amazed at how it just seems to be solid ad's and top-5 selections. Bleah. I spend almost all my time listening to XM's 100+ stations. What an awesome feature! I'm never buying another car without XM, period. (Maybe XM was available on the 03's too).

Hmm maybe I should also make a list of the performance enhancements in the Series III 3800, the improved road handling and Stabillitrak Sport, low maintenance components and so on