Just to shorten the list lets combine platform mates. Also the CTS variants are being added to an existing model. I will give you the Volt as a separate model from the Delta cars because of all the new tech.

 

I'll give you the CTS and Aveo as they are variations of the same model, the the Cruze and Orlando are entirely different, One is an SUV and one is a sedan. Not even close. SRX isn't even on the same platform as the Equinox, they just both happen to be SUVs.

 

Cruze and Orlando are both on Delta. Orlando is a tall, boxy wagon variant. SRX is on "T/E" or Theta-Epsilon also called Theta Premium. The Equinox/Terrain are on Theta 2. There are likely many shared parts and subsystems shared between the two.

IMO, I would classify all those listed as crossovers not SUVs. I tend to call anything unibody a crossover and BOF a SUV, it just makes things easier to identify similar models/competitors.

 

I'm hoping for big things from the Gen V. I just hope we don't have to wait long for it to find it's way into a production vehicle... preferably a moderately priced 2+2 coupe.

 

Thats not necessarily true. Due to Fords continuous improvement programs, and their aggressive MCE/redesign schedules........... expect significant introductions every year.

At this point, we have an idea of introductions up to 2012. However, if you want to hypothosize on later years, just wash/rinse/repeat last year, this year, and the next 2.

However, for Ford powertrain, this year is HUGE. The number of brand new engines coming out, on top of significantly improved, is a little hard to ignore.

 

Two things I want to point out that has been missing in the past page and a half of posts regarding GM and Ford.

1. All the GM products you are seeing are the result of the OLD GM.

It takes years to develop a new vehicle & new powertrains. The vehicles you are seeing now and in the immediate pipeline are items that were approved under the "old" GM. The new GM has accelerated some of those products, and the new GM has perhaps nupgraded the materials of some of those products. But while the new GM is managing things, it's still the old GM's products and scheduling we're seeing. That's why, to be honest, GM's immediate slate of vehicles and powertrains is so lackluster next to Ford.

The new Lacrosse comes to you from China. The Camaro would have never seen the light of day if it came along a mere 4-6 months later. The DTS replacement is what GM came up with after pulling the car off of Zeta instead of perhaps utilizing China's streched STS. The Orlando was not intended for the US until GM needed government loans. Volt is a folly. Cruze, appearancewise, is a reskinned Cobalt. Cadillac's ATS was reinstated by the new GM after being buried by the old. Sure, the new GM is aggressive, bold, and ready to take on the world. But the cars created by them is still years down the road.

2. Ford simply outflanked GM, and rolled them.

The vehicles, powertrains, and technology Ford is bringing out now has been under development for years. At the time Ford was borrowing to invest in turning the company into an aggressive player, GM was still burning through historic amounts of money. So muc so that while Ford was able to use itself for collateral for additional loans, GM couldn't get a loan to save it's frigging life, and had to resort to bonds and stock. There's plenty of people even on this very site who know personally how that turned out.

Those that still throw the occasional tomato at Ford by saying they morgaged the company ignore that Ford has an absolutely massive amount of loans that they have yet used, and perhaps likely won't. The loans that Ford has already are Long Term loans, much like using your house for collateral for home improvement loans.

In Fords case (and this is a point that's universally missed), as the value of Ford rises (via stocks and market value.... to date that value has risen something like 500% in the past year) shrinks the size of the loan when pit against Ford's resources.

To put this into perspective:

If when Ford morgaged itself for a loan of "X" dollars, and that amount equaled, say, 90% of the company, then with a 500% increase of the value of that company, that loan of "X" dollars is now only equal to 1/5 the value of the company. That's big enough news, but there's more.

That loan is a long term loan. In other words, although the value of that loan next to Ford's assets has shrunk drastically, Ford doesn't have to pay it all off. Ford can exchange it for stock (ownership in the company) which the creditor of the loan already effectively has.

Technically, Ford can get away without ever having to repay cash on the loan (subsitute with stocks, or create more stocks as value goes up to compensate), while at the same time, the percentage of the loan agains Ford's assets decreases as long as Ford's value grows.

Ford currently although they have a phalanx of new products, powertrains, and technologies, also actually has an impressive heap of development money and a loan that's shrinking due more to growth than to actually paying the damn thing off.

Pretty smart folk those guys.


Sidenote:
GM's finacial freedom comes not so much from having mounds of cash available (which to a large degree they still don't). GM's big break comes from not being weighed down by horrifying short term expenses and a debt that was worth far and away more than GM's market value or value of all it's assets. What's important for GM (like Chrysler) is to continue generating money through vehicle sales. The money GM generates goes directly into funding the things they need to do to grow and recover. That's one of the reasons why GM's board is so aggressive as far as reaching sales goals, and so intent on paying back the feds ASAP...with intrest.

Even though Chrysler's sales are down pretty low, the cost of making and selling each vehicle is so low that they are actually breaking even. GM is low enough that they are actually making money, but that money is going towards loan repayments and product development.


In Chrysler's case, if they get sales up (a certainty if their new vehicles are a hit), Chrysler will certainly make quite a bit of money and be on very solid financial footing. In GM's case, once they finish paying back the Feds, as long as GM keeps costs under control, they will also see a sudden meteoric rise in earnings as that money moves from loan repayment to profits.

 

So what they are on the same platform, they are two very different vehicles.

According to GM the SRX has more unique parts than shared parts with Theta. It is basically its own platform. Lot of GM vehicles share parts as they should since they are all from the same company.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that Ford has out-paced GM in most regards here recently. Powertrains in particular.

However I wouldn't say that's because GM has dropped the ball so much as it's because Ford has been exceeding all expectations.

Chrysler on the other hand continues to provide no excuse for its existence.

 

What's Ford got coming over the current 12 month period, and again over the following 13 to 24 month period that keeps pace with the current number of introductions? Vehicles, powertrains, or MCE?

 

Ford also didn't need the same help from the government as GM needed. Anyone that doesn't think that had an impact on the product pipeline is seriously delusional.

 

Huh? GM getting govt loans (and the gov't NOT getting anybody on the board) is going to negatively affect GM's pipeline? Am I missing something here? I could see GM having the govt-loan-debt to pay back being a drag; but isn't Ford facing relatively the same thing (the main difference being their money came from private sources)?

 

I will corrolate this, when I am not half asleep (I am a poor sleeper, by nature........ and much worse lately, due to massive allergy attacks). LOL While I know some of it, making it complete, will require a bit of research. BTW, timeframes for vehicles outside of 13months, will be educated guess's (based on insiders info) for a large part, as Ford does not announce their entire product plans for years out.

If anyone wants to help me out here............. it would be greatly appreciated.

 

GM is the one that started the party back in 1997.

 

Well, when you hit rock bottom, as Ford did before mortgaging itself up to its eyeballs there's only one way to go...

Ford are only just starting to come out with relevant powertrains. Before that, they did not compete in the same ballpark as GM. GM are dragging the chain on the 3.6L TT, which is already developed. The GenV engine is still around the corner (look out Ford, we're coming to get ya!). I don't quite understand some comments in regards to how Ford has exceeded GM on the powertrain front when Ford have yet to release their weapons of choice. We have only seen engine specs for Mustang, not backed up with any performance expectations. In any case, the Ford forums have been buoyant with optimism... which is healthy.

It's only now that we are starting to see a more unified and global approach from Ford on the product front. Although the product cabinet was really quite bare before the recent past. GM has had too many brands to deal with and the money wasn't enough to cater for every brand. But GM is only beginning to shift into gear with a new product offensive, much like Ford has done recently.

We'll see if any of GM's future products are any good as we've heard those promises many times before. Except this time, there are no more excuses. But, if Camaro, Cruze, Insignia, Volt etc... are barometers, GM should be in good shape to turn things around.