GM's Current Performance Car Lineup
09-02-2002, 11:14 PM
#31
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Racine, WI
Posts: 389
Imagine that! A FWD GTP out-slaloms a Miata!
That is a good slalom # for GTP. Considering the car's small size, the miata time isnt very good.
GM should take note of the fact that its 88 fiero formula or gt at 64.0 mph slalom would be better than what mr2 and miata manage today.
That is a good slalom # for GTP. Considering the car's small size, the miata time isnt very good.
GM should take note of the fact that its 88 fiero formula or gt at 64.0 mph slalom would be better than what mr2 and miata manage today.
09-02-2002, 11:22 PM
#32
Prominent Member
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
For crying out loud.....Who in the heck called any of these turtles "performance cars"?? 15+ second quarters??!! Are those our choices?? Count me OUT!
I bought a GTP for the wife...it had 4 doors and could get out of it's own way....it stickered at $26k+....my buddies bought their LS1 Z/28's for well under $25k...
Where are the "Chevrolet priced" V8 RWD performancecars??
As far as the statement "pay to play"...you go right ahead and spend $600 +/- per month for 5 or 6 years.....count me out.
I bought a GTP for the wife...it had 4 doors and could get out of it's own way....it stickered at $26k+....my buddies bought their LS1 Z/28's for well under $25k...
Where are the "Chevrolet priced" V8 RWD performancecars??
As far as the statement "pay to play"...you go right ahead and spend $600 +/- per month for 5 or 6 years.....count me out.
09-02-2002, 11:48 PM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
BTW...let me add afew more affordable "performance" contenders to that list of bad boys:
Hyudai Tiburon GT---
0-60: 7.1sec
1/4 mile: 15.6 sec
skidpad: 0.82G
Price as tested :$19,344
or
Mazdaspeed Protege'----
0-60: 6.9 sec
1/4 mile: 15.4 sec
skidpad :0.88G
Price as tested:$20,500
or
(my personal favorite....I'm not kidding, I really like this car!)
Mini Cooper S---------
0-60 :7.0 sec
1/4 mile: 15.5 sec
skidpad :0.85G
Price as tested: $24,000
[This message has been edited by Z284ever (edited September 03, 2002).]
Hyudai Tiburon GT---
0-60: 7.1sec
1/4 mile: 15.6 sec
skidpad: 0.82G
Price as tested :$19,344
or
Mazdaspeed Protege'----
0-60: 6.9 sec
1/4 mile: 15.4 sec
skidpad :0.88G
Price as tested:$20,500
or
(my personal favorite....I'm not kidding, I really like this car!)
Mini Cooper S---------
0-60 :7.0 sec
1/4 mile: 15.5 sec
skidpad :0.85G
Price as tested: $24,000
[This message has been edited by Z284ever (edited September 03, 2002).]
09-03-2002, 01:00 PM
#34
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Golden State
Posts: 13,711
2003 Mustang GT prices, $23,970 (add $813 for the automatic):
http://www.invoicedealers.com/Step3....ra5=&ra6=&year =2003&make=240&model=100&zip=92138&trim=9898&subNe xt=true&sub_type=Priced
Cobras are just under $34,000:
http://www.invoicedealers.com/Step3....ra5=&ra6=&year =2003&make=240&model=100&zip=92138&trim=9822&subNe xt=true&sub_type=Priced
http://www.invoicedealers.com/Step3....ra5=&ra6=&year =2003&make=240&model=100&zip=92138&trim=9898&subNe xt=true&sub_type=Priced
Cobras are just under $34,000:
http://www.invoicedealers.com/Step3....ra5=&ra6=&year =2003&make=240&model=100&zip=92138&trim=9822&subNe xt=true&sub_type=Priced
09-03-2002, 03:50 PM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Commerce, mi, USA
Posts: 2,139
guionM - linky no worky, even when I copy pasty...
Doug - I did a more realistic loan payment calculation, with a $5k trade in and a $2k down payment, 5 yr's, 3% interest... payment is only $413. You get what you pay for...
Which brings me to my scrutiny of the Hyundai Tiburon GT V6. First let me say they have GREATLY improved the looks of this car for 2003!
It reminds me of the Ferrari 456. However, for $20,400 (the price I got from carpoint after adding ABS, a sunroof and uplevel spoiler to be more like my T-top Trans Am), you are definitely getting less car than an LS1 Fbody. No steering wheel stereo controls... instead an LCD display stereo with tiny buttons to challenge you when wearing gloves. No power seats (Certainly no articulating power seats!). No traction control, although you might not need it since it's the "hated" FWD. Incredibly the V6 gets the same 18/26 MPG as my TA, while making ~130 fewer HP! No Thank You.
Doug - I did a more realistic loan payment calculation, with a $5k trade in and a $2k down payment, 5 yr's, 3% interest... payment is only $413. You get what you pay for...
Which brings me to my scrutiny of the Hyundai Tiburon GT V6. First let me say they have GREATLY improved the looks of this car for 2003!
It reminds me of the Ferrari 456. However, for $20,400 (the price I got from carpoint after adding ABS, a sunroof and uplevel spoiler to be more like my T-top Trans Am), you are definitely getting less car than an LS1 Fbody. No steering wheel stereo controls... instead an LCD display stereo with tiny buttons to challenge you when wearing gloves. No power seats (Certainly no articulating power seats!). No traction control, although you might not need it since it's the "hated" FWD. Incredibly the V6 gets the same 18/26 MPG as my TA, while making ~130 fewer HP! No Thank You.
09-03-2002, 05:04 PM
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,873
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Doug Harden, Pres CICC:
Where are the "Chevrolet priced" V8 RWD performancecars??
</font>
Where are the "Chevrolet priced" V8 RWD performancecars??
</font>
------------------
If it breaks, it wasn't high performance enough.
2001 Mustang Bullitt GT
2000 Jetta M5
09-03-2002, 06:30 PM
#38
Prominent Member
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BigDarknFast:
Doug - I did a more realistic loan payment calculation, with a $5k trade in and a $2k down payment, 5 yr's, 3% interest... payment is only $413. You get what you pay for....</font>
Doug - I did a more realistic loan payment calculation, with a $5k trade in and a $2k down payment, 5 yr's, 3% interest... payment is only $413. You get what you pay for....</font>
While that example is a possible scenario.....it's not a fair example due to the fact that the trade-in and down-payment are arbitrary. While I don't care to hijack this thread on this topic...the only fair example is to take the vehicle price w/o variables and do the math. Then take a guy who bought, say a 1998 Z/28 and now wants to trade it in......he's still gonna' be upside-down on the loan if he chose the traditional 60-72 month loan term, due to the horrible depreciation new cars suffer from....I've seen 75k mile Camaros sell for under $10k....for a sticker of over $20k+.
You say you get what you pay for.........well we only used to pay somewhere in the low 20's for our f-body's.....and when the last of them run out here in the next few months....then what do we do??
If and when the Camaro returns it had better be "Chevrolet priced" or it'll suffer the same fate as the F4.
09-03-2002, 08:54 PM
#39
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Doug Harden, Pres CICC:
If and when the Camaro returns it had better be "Chevrolet priced" or it'll suffer the same fate as the F4.</font>
If and when the Camaro returns it had better be "Chevrolet priced" or it'll suffer the same fate as the F4.</font>
However, I believe that a future Z/28 as we have described previously...would still be a good value...even at a higher price.
Incidently...someone I know, just took delivery of his '02 SS coupe. Nearly $38K !!!!! out the door!
09-03-2002, 09:16 PM
#40
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Commerce, mi, USA
Posts: 2,139
Doug - I chose the numbers I did to hopefully make it more realistic... but if you had a 1998 Z28, which according to edmunds has a private party street value around $10k, you could sell it yourself in parallel with buying the new car. Arbitrary - sure... it comes with the territory. I'm also not convinced that 60-72 months is the 'traditional' loan duration. My 1999 Formula loan was 36 mo.
I'm sure that when the Camaro returns it will again be the best performance bargain on the planet. Just my humble opinion. Will it be $20k or even $25k? I seriously doubt it, but then neither will its competition.
I'm sure that when the Camaro returns it will again be the best performance bargain on the planet. Just my humble opinion. Will it be $20k or even $25k? I seriously doubt it, but then neither will its competition.
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