You seemed to be pointing out that the Grand Prix sold more than the WRX. Sort of. Since your numbers showed more WRX's sold worldwide than Grand Prix in the US, but what are the worldwide numbers for the Grand Prix? I doubt it gains many sales from Europe, Australia or Japan.

I stated that the WRX is a trim level and a more accurate comparison would be the entire car line, since you compared the entire GP line to just the hipo trim of the Impreza.

Regardless, the Impreza is a smaller car, but I would see the 2 being cross shopped. The Grand Prix is a "sporty" sedan, so is the Impreza. I imagine a savy buyer would look at those, and the Legacy while they're at it.

How is 2k more cars worldwide ".000065%"?
I can tell you right now which car I see more of on the road. I get that you defend the car you own and all, but ****. I love my Camaro but I don't think it's the best selling best car in the universe.

 

Those numbers were for ALL Subaru's sold worldwide. That is for every make an model they make.

From media.subaru.com

My point was that the Grand Prix came within 2000 units of outselling the entire Subaru brand in May.

 

Oh. I still like the Legacy GT better tho.

 

So it sells more. What is the relevance? Of course a heavily rebated FWD mass market car that has a significant portion of its sales as a fleet vehicle will outsell a niche car that can only be had in AWD. Does that mean it is not competitive?

I can think of a million different reasons to say why one car is better than another, but baseing it on sales is pretty silly. Who buys a car just because it sells more? But, if you were going to base it on sales, I'd go for a lower volume or niche car over a vanilla car for the masses anyday.

PS: Your "GLOBAL" Sales figure is for the US Market only.

 

The original reason for all this is that someone claimed that a GP was not a good buy when compared to various Subarus. My point was that several thousand other people disagree with with that assumption. Also I think the percentage of fleet sales on the new GP is much lower than the past one.

Anyway..just like I like my car...you like other vehicles...no need running a dead horse in the ground

Also the figure is for US and Japan (worldwide sales). The chart shows Japan sales in that equation. Read the site...I would post a link to the direct page, but the site won't let me.

 

Mustang guys were using the sales logic there, for a while.

You're right though, I never felt the F-body was a "worse" car just because Ford sold many more Mustangs....In fact, that was reason enough for me to go with something different.

 

10 year gap though. S/c'ed SS was new for 04.

At this moment, they'll have to go elsewhere. Perhaps Volvo or Mazda. If the rumors hold true, something like a SVT Futura should fill this void.

Fwd luxo-barge. Both Lincoln and Cadillac have had sub-300hp 4.6L Dohc cars for sometime now. Those cars really didn't have the driving dynamics and feel of the newer breed cars like the Lincoln LS and CTS. These two cars are a big break from the Lincolns and Cadillac's of yesteryears. Ex: LS has a near 50:50 weight distrubution, and the CTS has been nurburgring tuned.

No arguing on price. CTS-V is clearly the better bargain, and its quality may even be better. But that doesn't mean that the Jag Type R isn't a competitor.

No arguing against that. You seem to be enjoying your car as well as its features.

Was looking through Brandens GTP pics and noticed in one pic that both paddels on either side of the steering have the "+", which i'm assuming means "upshift". Maybe they're just not showing up on the pics, but is their downshift paddles? Or does the tranny handle the downshifts automatically? I was thinking that one paddle would be "+" and the other a "-", but they both appear to be upshift paddles.

 

there is both a up shift and down shift paddle.

 

You can push either paddle in to upshift....

To down shift you pull the paddle towards you from behind...

I never use it...

It's a cool gimmick and all...but you pretty much feel like you are suggesting to the computer it shift....there is no feeling like you are in control. Also with a 4 speed auto it is no fun.

At the track my best time was with the TCS on and letting the car shift it self. even with the TCS on, Tapshift added .3 to my 1/4.

My fiance always wonders why I call it CrapShift

 

Just curious...what were your times?

 

The fastest 04 Prixs on www.clubgp.com are running low 13's...

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.as...mode=1&smode=1

 

GM SHOULD. GM is about twice the size of Ford & Chrysler put together.


[quote]No one is clawing at the window for a Status? No one drools over a Town and Country. "mmm look at thoes fold away seats! *drool*".[quote]

Ditto LeSabres, Malibus, or GM's fleet of Minivans. Point??


[quote]Chrystler took a HUGE gamble and jumped back into the RWD market. They could have failed and landed flat on there face. They somehow found the love for large American sedans again after everyone jumped out. Now GM is stupid for not making a RWD car. Like they knew this? I dont see any RWD Ford sedans making the headlines? No one is commending the CV on its 5 billionth fleet sales?[quote]

GM's B-cars were still selling strongly when they pulled the plug on them in favor of expanding their Truck capacity.

GM went with FWD for one reason only: It's cheaper & easier to create than RWD. If GM had no clue that Americans wanted RWD, then they must not read sales figures and do studies (which they do). The public doen't take FWD luxury cars seriously, and save for a few stubborn people, as a group the public doesn't care which wheels drive their cars.

Quote:

Ford. Ford has 2 cars that people want right now. The GT and Mustang.

Guess you missed that the Taurus is still selling over 300,000 cars per year (GM's best selling car, the Impala, is running about 186,000 per year). Or that the F series truck is still the world's best selling vehicle. How about the Ford Focus that sold 230,000 cars last year? Even the old Grand Marquis sold over 86,000 cars last year.

The FiveHundred is actually generating intrest. However, in all fairness, the Freestar is a screwup on Ford's part. They priced it relatively high, and Chrysler grossly undercut them by thousands of dollars, while having more neat items including "stow & go" seats.

I'll give you the Freestyle, if you'll hold judgement on the FiveHundred till the 1st sales figures come in.


When the Taurus came out in the early 80s, it was the most recalled vehicle in history. I haven't read any substantial recalls on any late model Taurus, so I'm assuming you are refering to an earlier model?

As for Focus, see above sales figures.

1. As I stated in the opening, GM has their "Halo" cars covered. Though GTO's in my sights, I'm not buying a C6 or SSR, and neither are you. What cars does GM have that you "must have" for under $32,000?

BTW: The Colbalt won't be in showrooms till September. If anyone's lining up, they better be packing a snack.

LaCrosse is a yawn next to the 300. Wait till it goes on sale, then we'll talk.

Quote:

So before we start saying that GM is hopeless, lets look at everyone else please. Ford is losing market share left and right. But they made tons of money! Where is it going too? Not sedans. Not back into the company? Right now, Lutz is cleaning out GM and trying to get rid of the old, and replace it with new. Its gunna take more then 2 years to do.

Ford is making alot of money, and it is going into new products. Don't know where you get the notion it's evaporating.

I never said GM is hopeless. It's simply going to be stuck on rebates while everyone else is making actual money & selling cars on their own merit. That's all.

 

Done.
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