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GM Settles with CAW!

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Old Sep 29, 2005 | 12:02 AM
  #16  
Pandamonkey's Avatar
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Re: GM Settles with CAW!

This is fantastic news.
Old Sep 29, 2005 | 12:45 AM
  #17  
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Re: GM Settles with CAW!

Originally Posted by sselie
http://www.canada.com/national/natio...4-a471141655b3
Sure hope this paves the way for some good things (and names?)to come down the pipeline soon!

Best regardSS,

Elie
1 day late, and 2 dollars short.
Old Sep 29, 2005 | 06:48 AM
  #18  
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Re: GM Settles with CAW!

Originally Posted by 0toinsanein5.4sec
About foreign companies firing workers, i can speak for Japan in saying that they dont do that. (Save for Nissan, but thats becaus Carlos Ghosn is running it and isnt Japanese) The Japanese have a different mentality than in other places around the world. And i mean people on every level. They have an extreme sense of pride they carry with them. For example, in America if someone asks you what you do you say "i work for GM". but in Japan its "I am a Toyota guy" and you say it with pride. They believe in working for the same company for their whole career. They also have a different system for operation in the factories. And they have quotas that must be met each day and you cant go home until your team, yes team, has met their quota. If you exceed it you get bonuses. They also have quality inspections of every product made. Another interesting thing is that when you get out of college say with a business degree, you dont go straight to the main offices and start doing business work, but rather you go to the factory and become a factory worker learning how every part of the product is made. And you are typically there for at least year (it all depends on how good you are and how much potential you show) before you can move up to the executive world. This helps to give them a broader view on what exactly the product is made of, etc and how to better and more efficiently design new products. I could go on and on about the differences that I am learning about in my Japanese business classes and from experience (visited a Komatsu factory (think Japanese Caterpillar) yesterday).
Agreed 100%. I have seen and experienced the same exact scenarios myself.

Our workers in our China and Taiwan facilities use the exact same equipment we use here in North Carolina, making the exact same product, etc, yet they consistently run at 90-95% total plant O.E. where our domestic plants struggle for 85% O.E. After some brief study, the reasons why were very (painfully) clear... they take pride in their work - PERIOD. In short, they take pride in their product, and take care of their equipment, both at the operator's and the manager's level.

All of our machines run 24/7 in process mode - there is no "off" switch on a machine in a process line. They (the Chinese/Taiwanese) have followed our engineer's recommended practice of daily preventive maintenance (P.M.). They actually schedule 20 minutes of downtime on each machine every day to wash it down, clean it, lube it, perform any required maintenance, etc. The result is a machine that runs the next 24.5 hours with little or no stoppage, and good product. If they see something that needs attention during PM, but don't have time to fix it right then, it gets scheduled for the next day's PM - and so on.

Here in the States, our omnipotent plant and production leaders have decided that they can't afford to have a machine down for 20-30 minutes a day - that is unacceptable, and we need to maximize our productivity, so we run continuously 24/7. The result? Machines go down sporadically and unpredictably for dirty sensors, dirt-clogged mechanisms, faulty switches, etc. And, since the problems are unexpected, maintenance is constantly in a "jump-and-run" reactive mode trying to get problems fixed ASAP, and keep production going. While sensors and machine movements are gummed-up and cruddy, the machines are struggling to make a quality product, and the operators are always pissy because their machines aren't running well. Once the operators get the rashy-*** and bad attitudes, they just decide to sit on a stool and watch the machines struggle. It becomes an ugly catch-22 where operators don't care so they don't try to keep the machines/area clean and working, and because things are nasty and not running well, the operators get an "I don't care" attitude.

What peeves me is that management HAS the power to intervene - but won't. Not only won't they, but they refuse to see that THEY are the source of the problem because they refuse to listen to their technically skilled people (engineers, techs, etc.) and instead adopt and implement some rediculous bean-counter policy that they don't have to live with every day. Management could implement a policy that requires PM's be done, and if employees don't comply, they are first warned, then reprimanded, then terminated (I like the 3-strike approach myself).
Instead, they just call meetings to b1tch at us engineers about how unreliable the machines are that we design, and b1tch about how lazy and unproductive the workers are.
It's VERY politically-incorrect right now for us engineers to sit in a production meeting where they are beating us for more efficiency under the guise of "having to compete with Asia", and we point at China and say, "Our machines are running great over there... maybe the problem is our policy and production management." ... but I do it!

I guess my point in this rant is that I personally don't see Unions as the entire problem or the entire solution to the workforce problems in the US or Canada. Both the workers and management have to have a good basic plan and both have to care about what they are doing every day for ANYTHING to work well.
I would personally like to see both the Union leaders and the carmakers show more interest in getting the processes more manageable and effective than hearing the same-old "jobs, cuts, raises, pension, benefits" type of BS. That stuff is important - I know that - but a quality product made by employees that WANT to be there seems to eliminate most of the problems like "jobs, cuts, raises, pension, benefits" by default.
Plants should (and could) be places people WANT to go work in and be proud of their job. And, if the plants cared about their people as much as their bottom line, there would eventually be no need for unions anyways.
But NO, we humans have to go and fudge everything up all the time and make things soooo complicated...
Old Sep 29, 2005 | 08:51 AM
  #19  
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Joined: May 1998
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From: Maumee, OH
Re: GM Settles with CAW!

Once again, I think people need a reality check on current reliability ratings. It seems the stereotypes in this thread knows no bounds. JasonD just recently reposted an article that the martian just also recently referenced. Time to fix some of our rectal-cranial displacement issues.
Old Sep 29, 2005 | 10:05 PM
  #20  
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Re: GM Settles with CAW!

No Kidding!

I know it's a little off-topic, but related in the sense of union workers costing a premium but supposedly providing a skilled workforce...
I just bought a '93 Mustang notchback (exceptionally straight and original), and had to replace the door hinge pins (all of them suck!). When I got the fender of to gain access to the hinge bolts, I saw globs of body/seam filler everywhere, and I thought, "how wasteful... they could have saved more than half of this junk for the next car." No more than 2 minutes later, I am taking out the bolts for the door hinge, and 1 bolt out of 6 total wrung-off. After cursing, I moved on.

After taking the plate out to drill and extract the wrung bolt, I can see from the back side that the bolt was cross-threaded into the plate, and forced in by impact wrench - the threads were just mutilated on the exposed bolt sticking out the back. My next thought is, "Man, what retard did this one and thought nobody would ever know."

Front bumper cover has provisions designed in for 9 attachment screws at the bottom from the factory... 4 are there. 4 screws holding the center console in place (plastic-to-plastic) - 3 are good, one was stripped. I can go on and on, but I think you can see where I am going with this.

GM and Ford pay good money to people to put cars together RIGHT. After the deal is signed, they go to the line and do a half-@ss job slapping cars together, just watching the clock for quitting time, and griping about needing more money. This sucks! This is also why we are getting our butts kicked by foreign companies that actually punish (or heaven forbid FIRE) a worker that knowingly does not execute his/her job correctly. I am certainly aware that line workers get pushed to execute tasks on a tight schedule, they are always asked to do more, and they are pushed by managers - but so is everyone else working in todays economy - me included.

I am all for the union getting the workers what they deserve, but I also think they should be more conscientious about what their workers are actually doing. Defending a guy that puts in half the screws required because he thinks that's enough is goofy.
As we have said here before - they could just price themselves right out of a job if not careful.

Anyways - good news to see they averted the strike, and GM is clear to move ahead with plans up north.
As for the seem sealer, at our factory this is done by a robot, as well as windshield sealer etc...We used to do some manually, you should've seen how worn the guns were, and they wouldn't spring for new ones, extremely sloppy and wasteful.
And as for your bumper cover, many parts on our trucks have holes for more screws than we actually put in them. We're told how many and the locations to put them, not sure why the extra's unless it's for when someone strips the usual holes.
I don't work for GM or Ford, but I can tell you WE aren't given the time to do it RIGHT, (by our opinion) in some cases it would only take an extra 20-30 seconds / vehicle.
I'm NOT saying we don't have our slackers, ALL areas, and levels DO...but the majority of things like that probably have other reasons..(IMO)
Old Sep 29, 2005 | 10:20 PM
  #21  
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Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 2,947
From: Springfield,OH. U.S.A.
Re: GM Settles with CAW!

Agreed 100%. I have seen and experienced the same exact scenarios myself.

Our workers in our China and Taiwan facilities use the exact same equipment we use here in North Carolina, making the exact same product, etc, yet they consistently run at 90-95% total plant O.E. where our domestic plants struggle for 85% O.E. After some brief study, the reasons why were very (painfully) clear... they take pride in their work - PERIOD. In short, they take pride in their product, and take care of their equipment, both at the operator's and the manager's level.

All of our machines run 24/7 in process mode - there is no "off" switch on a machine in a process line. They (the Chinese/Taiwanese) have followed our engineer's recommended practice of daily preventive maintenance (P.M.). They actually schedule 20 minutes of downtime on each machine every day to wash it down, clean it, lube it, perform any required maintenance, etc. The result is a machine that runs the next 24.5 hours with little or no stoppage, and good product. If they see something that needs attention during PM, but don't have time to fix it right then, it gets scheduled for the next day's PM - and so on.

Here in the States, our omnipotent plant and production leaders have decided that they can't afford to have a machine down for 20-30 minutes a day - that is unacceptable, and we need to maximize our productivity, so we run continuously 24/7. The result? Machines go down sporadically and unpredictably for dirty sensors, dirt-clogged mechanisms, faulty switches, etc. And, since the problems are unexpected, maintenance is constantly in a "jump-and-run" reactive mode trying to get problems fixed ASAP, and keep production going. While sensors and machine movements are gummed-up and cruddy, the machines are struggling to make a quality product, and the operators are always pissy because their machines aren't running well. Once the operators get the rashy-*** and bad attitudes, they just decide to sit on a stool and watch the machines struggle. It becomes an ugly catch-22 where operators don't care so they don't try to keep the machines/area clean and working, and because things are nasty and not running well, the operators get an "I don't care" attitude.

What peeves me is that management HAS the power to intervene - but won't. Not only won't they, but they refuse to see that THEY are the source of the problem because they refuse to listen to their technically skilled people (engineers, techs, etc.) and instead adopt and implement some rediculous bean-counter policy that they don't have to live with every day. Management could implement a policy that requires PM's be done, and if employees don't comply, they are first warned, then reprimanded, then terminated (I like the 3-strike approach myself).
Instead, they just call meetings to b1tch at us engineers about how unreliable the machines are that we design, and b1tch about how lazy and unproductive the workers are.
It's VERY politically-incorrect right now for us engineers to sit in a production meeting where they are beating us for more efficiency under the guise of "having to compete with Asia", and we point at China and say, "Our machines are running great over there... maybe the problem is our policy and production management." ... but I do it!

I guess my point in this rant is that I personally don't see Unions as the entire problem or the entire solution to the workforce problems in the US or Canada. Both the workers and management have to have a good basic plan and both have to care about what they are doing every day for ANYTHING to work well.
I would personally like to see both the Union leaders and the carmakers show more interest in getting the processes more manageable and effective than hearing the same-old "jobs, cuts, raises, pension, benefits" type of BS. That stuff is important - I know that - but a quality product made by employees that WANT to be there seems to eliminate most of the problems like "jobs, cuts, raises, pension, benefits" by default.
Plants should (and could) be places people WANT to go work in and be proud of their job. And, if the plants cared about their people as much as their bottom line, there would eventually be no need for unions anyways.
But NO, we humans have to go and fudge everything up all the time and make things soooo complicated...
Excellent post! If we had more management like you, you would'nt hear all the pissing and moaning, that goes on now. Workers ARE fed up with the "All I care about is my bottom line", attitude...either by lack of P/M on equipment, or attention to the human robots as well. We all know "time is money" but sacrificing 1 or 2 vehicles a day off the schedule, could dramatically increase First Time Quality percentages and moral and lower downtime. No P/M is just Industrial Suicide...
Old Sep 30, 2005 | 06:15 AM
  #22  
ProudPony's Avatar
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
Re: GM Settles with CAW!

Originally Posted by 90rocz
Excellent post! If we had more management like you, you would'nt hear all the pissing and moaning, that goes on now. Workers ARE fed up with the "All I care about is my bottom line", attitude...either by lack of P/M on equipment, or attention to the human robots as well. We all know "time is money" but sacrificing 1 or 2 vehicles a day off the schedule, could dramatically increase First Time Quality percentages and moral and lower downtime. No P/M is just Industrial Suicide...
Thanks for chiming in. I actually go out on the floor and talk to the people working on equipment I am responsible for, and as often as possible, I do it in Jeans and a pullover instead of slacks and the white button-down - it disarms them and they open up to someone who appers "normal" to them.
I hear the claims... sometimes you get a BS-artist, but most of the time people really do want to do a good job for you, and the most common complaint right now is that the operators don't think they are getting good enough equipment to work with, or the equipment they get is not being well-maintained - and they get agitated because the shoddy equipment reflects on THEIR productivity.

I figured there might be somebody reading this forum that experienced the same things, and would understand.

Back more on the main topic... it's just a shame that in this day and time we all still have to have unions and labor reps at all.
It just makes sense that if a company looked-out for their people and made the plants a place where someone WANTS to work, that people would be fighting to work there, and KEEP their jobs if they already had one. So why don't companies DO THAT?
Instead, we turn everything into a bean-counting, politically charged conundrum in which all parties are forced to dicker, barter, trade, negotiate, and eventually "lose" something. Me no understandy.
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