Dude, mid-80's civics got "52" MPG. You don't see modern civics doing that.


It's not all uphill, and it's not any cheaper (Each f-body was more expensive wasn't it?).

 

I am not sure what you mean but I had an 88 CRX that got nearly 60mpg on the highway, and a 78 Triumph Spitfire that got 48mpg. That is what I am getting at. I just cant see why we cant get better gas mileage from a V8 than we do, especially over the next 10 years.

 

I'm not really up for discussing the war, but if Iraq didn't have large oil reserves, we wouldn't be there. PERIOD.

You are extrapolating this Gestapo thing WAY too far. The average yahoo that drives his 12mpg pickup to a cushy office job everyday is chaining us to the Oil Shieks and Chavez. It's not the enviro-***** like you think, because, like it or not, the Oil Shieks control the price, because they sit on the cheapest oil on the planet. They can set the bottom, because they can turn a profit at $15/barrel. At this point, we are hopelessly tied to these despicable, backwards-*** regimes, all so that we have the "freedom" to hit the remote start on the Suburban for a 10 minute warmup to head to Starbucks.

THAT is why I'll take CAFE, in the absence a more correct gas tax. These taxes, BTW, pay for services that you and I use. HOW they are spent is, of course, open to a whole lot of discussion, but the need for additional road taxes in the face of decaying infrastructure, more backups, etc, seems fairly reasonable to me. Everyone wants a free lunch, without working for it. It's why we'll be owned by China in 20 years.

 

We dont have to be a slave to OPEC. We have our own oil. Hell Chavez is drilling our oil in the Gulf of Mexico then selling it back to us through OPEC. Our Government will not let us drill our own oil. Nor will they let us build more refinaries. But you think more regulations are a good thing. You say I am going to far on the Gestapo **** thing, then say China will own us in 20 years. Same differance. If we keep letting it happen that is exactly what will happen. We need smaller government and less regulations and taxes, not bigger and more.

Iraq was not for oil. Personally I think we should take a little of that oil myself, but we didnt go there for that, so we cant. Oh and it would be politically incorrect.

 

I think you all see my feelings on Government intervention. I dont like it, no matter whether it is CAFE or some other crazy regulatory comittee. So I am done here. I just think the government should step back, and if anything help us become energy independant, rather than imposing or enforcing regulations on every aspect of energy we have here. We as a country have the capability to be completely energy independant, but the government wont let us.

 

If phasing out V8's is the future, I hope it will at least lead to something like a modern version of the Grand National's turbo V6.

Then again, I just realized even small displacement turbo engines get around the same mileage as modern V8's, both the EVO and WRX are only rated in the mid-20's hwy.

Looks like we'll be revisiting the days of the early 70's when the original musclecars died.

 

Not quite that bad...in 1980, any car that could do a 1/4 mile in under 18 seconds was fast. Corvettes struggled and mostly failed to break into the 15s. I don't see us going there, at least.

A Camry hybrid has a CAFE rating over 35 and it's solidly into the 15s.

I do expect the V8 rumble will be getting more expensive...unless you buy used

 

Sure it is. To whom do you request a lowering of taxes? The Government. Who raises taxes? The government.

Who controls tax rates? The government.

See? The government is the answer to three of these (and you are the answer to the fourth).

 

Usually turbos use more fuel than atmos.

If you compare a 400hp V6 turbo to a 400hp NA V8, I'd bet the V8 is more fuel efficient every time.

Downsizing engines is not the answer, nor has it ever been the answer to the fuel economy standards. Cars are getting heavier and heavier, particularly as manufacturers must meet more stringent crash testing requirements. It's the weight of vehicles that is the real killer to fuel economy standards, not engine capacity.

I'll keep my current V8 until new propulsion methods are in place.

 

I'm confident that you'll see engines in the next several years where this is not the case. Hell, the LNA in the Solstice GXP/Sky RL should already demonstrate that small turbocharged engines can provide an incredible increase in performance without additional fuel consumption.

 

I think all this means is V8 will become something special again. Bob Lutz says no new V8 families but it will only be a matter of time before offering a V8 is a big deal by itself. They will still be out there and with things like direct injection and electromagnetic valves and HCCI they will be able to make V8s that don't fall below the 35mpg standard and make a lot of horsepower.

 

The press releases on Ford's Ecoboost are in direct contradiction to this statement. I'm confident that it will be the other way.

 

I meant more government regulations. The government needs to curtail their spending, not raise taxes and impose more regulations.

 

Well those are Ford V8s they are comparing the EcoBoost to, we all know how much more efficient an engine like an LS1/LS4 is

 

Higher output and pretty impressive increase in fuel economy. When I first saw the specs on that engine I was shocked.

The LSx series are in the line for DI. We know they've tested it. Who knows what that'll do to fuel economy. HCCI, theres another. Make all cars mild hybrid using a combined starter/alternator, theres another.

Getting off the Political Rant, GM makes a 300hp V6. With a turbo, whos to say it couldnt make 400? Should be pretty easy. Weight is a big problem!!!

And I'll second the lighter ponycar with less power. Its expensive and annoying for the buyer to decrease weight. In comparison, mods that add power are cheap and easy (and dont effect CAFE).

Speaking of which - Stupid Question - Lets say GM makes a turbo V6. To help fuel economy, they castrate the tune and reduce boost. As a GMPP Dealer-Installed-Item they reflash the ECU to gve you the power that you want. As it is technically installed after the sale, that shouldnt affect CAFE right? That would be one [rediculous] way around it.