In the late 80's I made 28$ an hr shoveling snow at GE in Lynn MA as a full time employee before getting layed off....yeah gotta love unions when you are at the bottom

 

now that makes more sense, still, popcorn would be a flyin'

 

here we go again.....

 

 

People who argue pro union forget that they were made to stop oppressive working conditions. The Govt. regulations set in place now allow many places to work within all codes without any other input. How often are unions striking for oppressive working conditions?

Unions are a thing of the past and can only hurt the economy now.

Edit: Why don't they just hire on floor workers as salary then? It would circumvent the whole hourly employee deal.

 

None of the Toyota or Honda plants anywhere are union...they won't let the union even try to come into their shop. The workers don't even want to form a union. This isn't just in the south, Indiana has a few Toyota plants and is about to open up a Honda plant and I guarantee you they won't be union. If you take care of your workers and pay them competive wages with surrounding companies and a decent benefits package they won't want to form a union. Who wants to have more money taken out of their check for union dues and worry about contract negotiations every three or four years?


Is this GM trying to dissolve the UAW? I'm not sure exactly how that process would work...just curious.

Mighty, the article said starting pay would be $14-16/hr.

 

I disagree on the overpaid part (other compensation and other longterm compnesation may be out of hand).

IMO, I find it disturbing people are so eager to see other people get the crap knocked out of thier sails for no better reason than to stuff the ****box called "my home" which cheaply manufactured crap.

Does it occur to anybody that when you reduce somebody's pay to a "globally competitve level" and dump all the nice crap that goes with it, the tab is going to be picked up by somebody else through taxation (national health care instituted, increasing federal college money, ect). Not to mention the seedier stuff like augmenting thier lost income by selling "cheese" in your neighborhood, or even something obscure as creating increased competition in higher paying jobmarkets since these formerly well paid skulls now have a reason to do something more than screw widgets together.

 

Wow...just wow, you completely lost me in your incoherent rambling about cheese and skulls. I'd say non-union shops such as Toyota, Honda, and almost all factories in the South are doing fairly well and they don't have a union influence. They actually won't let the union into their shop and when they do manage to get a vote, it is always voted down.

So why should it cost a company $70/hr for some "skull" to "screw widgets together"?

 

Non GM, UAW member here.
They're not cleaning a McDonalds, or insurance office...which btw pays about $14-$16/hr around here.
They have to clean large warehouse areas, up and down the Line, and usually take care of all the PPE issuing and washing and recycling...definitely not "broom-leaners"...
Wages are usually set by an average for an area, in similar fields...problem now is, they want to throw in Outsourcing and transplant labor numbers when averaging. But cost of living & experience gets left out.

Healthcare has just gotten way more expensive, and most of the current employees, older, using doctors and meds more.
UAW just got GM to sign VEBA, Voluntary Employee Beneficiery Association.:

 

Ah, but they DO sub out work to Union shops everywhere. Here some GM shocks and Toyota shocks were made in the same shop!
Why should I have to pay $75/hr for a plumber to "screw my pipes together" or an HVAC person to "screw sheetmetal together"...you guys make any job seem so-o-o-o-o-o simple.

 

All the time.
You've not worked much in a shop, huh?
As Unions decrease we are seeing:
1)Longer working ours
2)Lower wages
3)safety shortcuts
4)more hostile work environments
5)insanely strict attendance policies, designed to increase turn over and keep wages low.
6)more workload per shift, can you say "sweat"-shop.(effective deeper pay cuts)
More civilized and indirect now, but opressions' coming back.

 

That was sarcasm...my dad built residential homes, his own company. Some plumbers are very good friends of mine.

GM workers aren't making $75/hr...that includes pension and healthcare.
Plus, GM line workers are busy from buzzer to buzzer...not driving here to there, going to stores etc.
I'd say double or more the amount of "actual" work done by an "average" plumber.

And there are many variants, it's not like screwing together the same 4 screws, hour by hour, day by day. They have to read blueprints, work orders, torque specs, orders of operation etc..quickly, w/o scratching anything.

And many UAW workers bring in their own tools, they cut and weld 2 different wrenches together, bend screwdrivers, whatever makes their job easier and that increases quality and production.
A LOT of the special tools you see, like speed wrenches, came from assembly line workers modified hand tools.

And most of the interiors, like complained about in earlier posts, ARE OUTSOURCED, to the lowest bidders.
They come in preassembled; door panels, dashes etc..
So don't be so quick to blame UAW workers.

 

Just not manufacturing, I work retail and alot of that applies. Ultimately I find all this goes back to placating shareholders who only see the value of thier stock and don't dwell to deeply on what its driving in terms of the human cost.

 

I have worked in shops as a mechanic and as a CNC operator. Non union environments. I would be surprised if #3 and 4 are the case with Osha and other organizations. #2 is most certainly true but many would argue that the wages fall back to what is more inline with the skills these workers offer. #5 depends on your definition of insanely strict. #6 is probably true at least partially. Companies always want to increase productivity but sweat shop is probably a bit much. I don't mean to say that these things never happen, they probably do sometimes. I just don't think its the norm that buisnesses and factories couldn't function without the Unions keeping them in line.

I am a firm believer in leaving a job if I think the workload, pay, safety, etc. aren't what I think they should be. If they can find people to do the job more power to them. If they can't then they have a few options: increase pay, decrease the workload, or improve the working conditions until they can find people to work for them.

 

Using what measure?
Similar workers in Mexico? China?
Others would argue it's attempting to quench a never ending thirst for Wall Street investors' "return on investment".

Again, if only life were so simple.
Many of those "people" have invested 10, 15 or more years towards retirement in these companies.
It's HARD to just start over, in your 40's or 50's.
Workers "negociate", with those companies, and compromises are made until both parties are satisfied that an mutually acceptable, comparable deal has been reach.
Unions threaten to strike, companies threaten to move out of state...in the end both know it's more equitable to cooperate.