GM makes crappy, gas guzzling cars and deserves to go out of business
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,713
From: Cinnaminson, NJ
Somewhere along the line people started listening to folks that know about toasters, when considering their new vehicle purchases! My friend has an 07 Yukon, which has been great. They love it, I've seen some great mpg in it, that if I post here, I'll surely be called a names!! Same goes for the 07 Avalanche my other friend has! I've driven both quite a bit, and they are simply all around awesome vehicles...
exactly... I wouldnt call a 1985 Oldsmobile cutting edge and fun to drive but that was then and this is now. The cars are a much better now. I love my Yukon and its a blast to drive. The cars are built here but half the parts are from the other side of the world. So when the drivetrain stays going and your plastic cup holder breaks think about who made it. My wife and family are comfortable in my 05 and I get 22 mpg on the highway loaded with luggage and the family. I'd need 2 Toyota's to fit the same amount of stuff in
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,817
From: O-Town
reliability down to an art? really? and then you go on to acknowledge that the 60 degree engines had notorious problems with intake manifolds?
GM quality was still crap well into the 2000's and has only really changed within the last year or two
the 2003-2004 saturn vue with the variable speed transmission is well documented online to be a hunk of scrap. GM had to extend the powertrain warranties on those vehicles they were so bad. my parent's 2003 saturn vue got its 2ed transmission at 23,000 miles and 3ed transmission at 98,000 miles.
GM quality was still crap well into the 2000's and has only really changed within the last year or two
the 2003-2004 saturn vue with the variable speed transmission is well documented online to be a hunk of scrap. GM had to extend the powertrain warranties on those vehicles they were so bad. my parent's 2003 saturn vue got its 2ed transmission at 23,000 miles and 3ed transmission at 98,000 miles.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,165
From: Sterling Heights, MI
I've been saying for years now that changing the public's perception about their products is the single most daunting task Detroit faces. Bottom line is, no amount of government cheese is going to save them if they cannot get people to look seriously at their cars again.
The real discussion shouldn't be what these people are saying but how you get them to stop saying it. Products like Malibu and CTS are a start, but they'll need to build 15 years worth of Malibus and CTS's to turn things around. Each iteration of every model is going to have to be world class. And somehow, you've got to find a way to get into Consumer Reports' good graces. That magazine has been an import buyer's bible.
The real discussion shouldn't be what these people are saying but how you get them to stop saying it. Products like Malibu and CTS are a start, but they'll need to build 15 years worth of Malibus and CTS's to turn things around. Each iteration of every model is going to have to be world class. And somehow, you've got to find a way to get into Consumer Reports' good graces. That magazine has been an import buyer's bible.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 176
From: Cleveland, OH
the Big three have made much better cars in recent years. As good or better than alot of the competitors. Thats a fact IMO.
Unfortunately it's the perception and history that follows them. That can't be undone without time and time is something that a failed business can't have.
Thats why failure is so attractive. Recreate from the ground up a company that can succeed.
Unfortunately it's the perception and history that follows them. That can't be undone without time and time is something that a failed business can't have.
Thats why failure is so attractive. Recreate from the ground up a company that can succeed.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Just in case you didn't know, GM's cars are downright sh*ty when compared to their Japanese competition. They've got no performance, zero reliability, and they guzzle gas like theres no tomorrow. Another interesting fact, the Japanese never tried to push into the SUV/truck market. They were much more market savvy and steered clear of this obviosly greed driven segment that GM took advantage of because of CAFE loopholes. For these reasons, GM deserves to go out of business. 3 million workers sounds like a lot but thats really only 1% of the population. All of this doom and gloom is way overblown and their collapse wont really have a significant impact on the economy.
Holy potatoes, I cant take it anymore. It seems like this is what 90% of Americans truely believe. Everywhere I go this is all I hear. It is so hip for Americans to hate anything American right now.
Holy potatoes, I cant take it anymore. It seems like this is what 90% of Americans truely believe. Everywhere I go this is all I hear. It is so hip for Americans to hate anything American right now.
Then wait for the crickets.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,938
Say what you want about Toyota (I have no great love for them) but they've been building pretty good cars that, more important than performance, people have been buying. Performance vehicles are really important to performance-oriented folks but there aren't enough of that "bent" to keep a large/major car company in business.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Unless Toyota shelved the project, they will have their halo car in North America within a year or two but that aside, are you suggesting that 0-60 and/or a "sports" car/muscle car offerings should be the only measure of how great or not-great a car company is supposed to be?
Say what you want about Toyota (I have no great love for them) but they've been building pretty good cars that, more important than performance, people have been buying. Performance vehicles are really important to performance-oriented folks but there aren't enough of that "bent" to keep a large/major car company in business.
Say what you want about Toyota (I have no great love for them) but they've been building pretty good cars that, more important than performance, people have been buying. Performance vehicles are really important to performance-oriented folks but there aren't enough of that "bent" to keep a large/major car company in business.
I was merely suggesting anyone that thinks US-Toyota exudes performance (more than GM) is purely thinking of NASCAR and their truck division.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,579
From: The Land of Pleasant Living
I've been saying for years now that changing the public's perception about their products is the single most daunting task Detroit faces. Bottom line is, no amount of government cheese is going to save them if they cannot get people to look seriously at their cars again.
The real discussion shouldn't be what these people are saying but how you get them to stop saying it. Products like Malibu and CTS are a start, but they'll need to build 15 years worth of Malibus and CTS's to turn things around. Each iteration of every model is going to have to be world class. And somehow, you've got to find a way to get into Consumer Reports' good graces. That magazine has been an import buyer's bible.
The real discussion shouldn't be what these people are saying but how you get them to stop saying it. Products like Malibu and CTS are a start, but they'll need to build 15 years worth of Malibus and CTS's to turn things around. Each iteration of every model is going to have to be world class. And somehow, you've got to find a way to get into Consumer Reports' good graces. That magazine has been an import buyer's bible.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,938
Don't get me wrong Robert, I'm not against Toyota. I just think its a shame they killed off the Supra and have no halo car to speak of.
I was merely suggesting anyone that thinks US-Toyota exudes performance (more than GM) is purely thinking of NASCAR and their truck division.
I was merely suggesting anyone that thinks US-Toyota exudes performance (more than GM) is purely thinking of NASCAR and their truck division.
Last I heard (supposedly "official" in April of this year), Toyota and Subaru were partnering to offer a RWD performance coupe.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
1996LT1Z28
Show and Shine / Paint and Body Care
2
Dec 4, 2014 09:20 PM