It's good to like your own brand.

But, do you have any friends with kids? You know, friends with annoying kids. You know the type. The kid has an IQ of a gnat, his typical behavior reminds you, of a way - too - drunk frat boy on springbreak (in a more pint-sized package of course) and his mom also dresses him funny.

Invariably, mom turns to you.....and with a straight face.......says, "we think junior is a gifted child".

 

I think we need to put out the fire before it burns the whole forrest.

Lets face it. Every single person in the world is a fanboy about something in some shape, form, or fashion.

Funny link:
http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...htm/fanboy.htm

 

I agree. Even if the pic was of a vehicle with an LS7 with twin turbos, its still a Buick, which means bland styling (to the enthusiasts here). Plus its under camo anyway, so big deal, you won't know how it looks for its final shape/style. Since it isn't what everybody thought it was, so what, its a FWD car going to China. Unless you live there, move on.

 

But you see the thing is. Everybody believes the Chinese Buick is coming to America because thats what Edmunds and the Car Connection says. So GASP! It MUST be coming to North America no matter what architecture its based on.

Guess what. TCC and Edmunds are the highest paid to say what GM wants them to say to keep you guessing and wondering. Its the independant sites that have the most factual information. Dan Lienert probably gets most of his information from such sites. But, if because it's not Inside Line or TCC.......it's "wrong"....and that's what people are trained to believe.

 

Well, Edmunds and TCC are no better than internet rumors spread here. I actually think GM is happy that the internet and places like this exist because the spread of disinformation is much easier than back in, oh say 1995. For every person that is an "insider" here, there is another, who isn't, but says he is, so they cancel each other out.
What nobody realizes is that GM, Ford, DCX, Toyota, etc etc have internal intelligence people that know WAY more details about everybody else's future models than what is said in these kind of forums, so they may monitor these sites for general "feelings" about competitor's products, but defintitly don't come here for future facts.

 

screw that... I'm nothing if not critical of everything GM puts out. The thing is, I EXPECT GM to push out great product every time. You don't have to have much of an imagination to see how I'd be disappointed with GM most of the time. in fact, I'm kind of to the point now where I lost the ability to care anymore so everything from GM is "blah" to me until they really wow me with something. The Sky comes pretty close to that. But how many Sky's do we have driving around town as of now??? right...

 

They(stuffed shirts at GM & others)like to take good designs and morph them into "Buicks" of past, so to speak. Just look at ALL of the great ideas that make it as "Concept" cars, and instead of just toning them down a little, most great ideas get "shelved" for many years. Isn't that holding back technology???(For our own good, b/c we're not ready to accept it.. )

 

That's the sign of a true car enthusiast instead of a brand cheerleader.

EVERY car maker has their faults and screwups, and in return they all have some good things too.

*GM tends to be sluggish and hardly innovative when creating new designs & vehicle classes, and seems geared to kill new ideas before they start unless they are snuck under the radar (The idea of a Minivan originated at GM in the 1970s, but was rejected! Fiero was sold as a commuter car, the original GTO didn't even get traditional approval. Even the story of the C5 reads like a good edge of your seat drama.). But when GM does finally get around to doing something, you feel they let everything loose in getting it done. Once another company proves there's a market, GM then goes after it, late but like crazy!

*Chrysler used to have a tendancy of bringing out cars that were just half baked and engines that drank almost as much oil as gasoline, but those cars were always innovative and those engines tended to last as long as you kept adding oil.... evenfor decades. Chrysler is also the number one maker that instigates performance wars or hot rods cars that no one else would even attempt. A big V8 with 4 barrel & duals in a mid 70s compact (when everyone else was running to restrictive exhausts and smaller engines), rocket quick turbos in FWD econoboxes in the 80s, the insane at the time Dodge Viper, 5 second to 60 mph NEONS!, and now a paint, taped, spoiled tire-smoking, rear drive, full size sedan that looks like something from the 70s. GM would never do something like that, and if Ford tried, they'd try to make it too understated and "grown up".

*Ford tends to spend $10 to do a $2 job (in their day, the MN12 and the Countour-Mystique-Mondeo were some of the most expensive investments in automotive history, and lets not start about modular engines and SUVs with IRS!), let quality & customer service go to crap in the 90s, and won't add more power to anything unless someone takes a gun to their collective heads. But Ford also tends to have better fit and finish than the other 2, Ford's parts tend to last longer than GM's, and Ford's more willing to bring out the occasional factory exotic car that GM would never do (ie: SVO, Merkur, Turbo Coupe, Super Coupe, Lightning, Cobra, GT, etc...).

 

Well said.

I was just thinking about this a couple days ago, now that the Camaro is gone, GM has absolutely nothing in the same class as Ford and Chrysler. They have no RWD car at all except for the obligatory vette, which they think gives them an excuse to make only one model worth a $***. Don't get me wrong, the Carlo and the Impala SS would be great cars if they weren't FWD, which makes them useless in terms of going for a more power-hungry crowd.

Ford is in the best possible spot financially. they released the new Stang at the perfect time, and now they can't keep any on the lots. I've personally only seen about 2 05' Mustang GTs on any lot. The V6 mustang is also perfect for people who want the look but have no money for power. Meanwhile their GT program keeps people saying OMGWTF Ford=Ferrari killer!

Chrysler is trying really hard to change their image, and are fighting a battle on two fronts of sorts. On one hand, they're trying to become a 'thinking man's Cadillac', with their 300M, and their end-all sedan, the 300/300C.
On the other hand, they are also trying to become a "contemporary German" company with their many, many Crossfire versions. What's keeping people from getting sick of the whole situation is their Viper.

So basically, GM lacks an effective performance vehicle that can be bought by the general public. The GTO was a huge missed opertunity, it looks like crap and is way too expensive. It's almost like it's competing with the vette instead of the mustang.

 

I think any enthusiast suffers this to a degree. I have an '04 Impala with 15,000 miles and a 3400 series V-6 in it. The car has the worst orange peel I have ever seen in a new car outside of Mitsubishi, the seats are uncomfortable for even medium range trips, the seatbelts are hard to latch, decent quality plastic is surrounded by really cheap plastic in the interior, the engine lacks the power one would expect etc. I could keep going, but I won't. Why did I get this car then? Easy answer, deep price cuts. Without them, I would not have even been the market for a car that looks interior wise of mid 90's style at best. I simply settled and convinced myself that it was better than it was, a mistake I will not make again. A discounted GTO is looking very tempting right now....

 

GTO = $32,000 or so MSRP... Avg. Corvette = $53,000 or so MSRP.

Somehow.... I think you might just be wrong.

 

Back on topic: When I saw the supposed Zeta spy shot I reserved comment - mostly because I was thinking "If this is Zeta, GM's in big trouble". I was glad to hear that it was just an FWD Buick for China, because that's what it looks like.

 

Guion, while I do agree with a lot of your post you need to give GM credit where it's due with performance. While Ford had those special cars, GM also had a good handful of them: GN / GNX, TTA, SyTys (an awd turbocharged truck), ZR1 Vette, Z06, 97 LT4 SSs, Firehawk (esp the 92), Z06...

 

GTO = $33K
'04 Mustang Cobra = $35K

Both 400HP and about the same weight. GTO has a BMW quality interior and the Cobra had the same interior as a 1994 V6 mustang.

 

no. I'm talking about the current situation in 2005. There is no longer a Cobra. There was in 04, this is true, but how could you find one? The GTO base model is the same as its most expensive model, the Mustang's base model is a V6. There has always been the Camaro Z28 against the Mustang GT. That was a class that the majority of vehicle buyers could actually buy into. Who can afford a goat?

Also, the appeal is messed up too. A part of everyone wants an F-body to a certain extent, less so with a GTO.