Despite decent advertising and phenomenal reviews, the car simply wasn't moving until they started throwing incentives on the hood.

That might have been OK for regular GMNA, but obviously that wasn't what they were expecting for the G8. I guess with the currency exchange and import costs and fairly aggressive pricing, their margins were pretty thin to begin with, and a few extra grand was putting them in the red.

Of course we're in the worst auto sales downturn since the Depression, but at the same time GM can't afford to lose money on any vehicle right now.

Furthermore, Henderson is under extreme pressure to cut cut cut. He's certainly not going to agree to adding any new models until GM is out of the courtroom.

 

So much for flex-line huh?

I think we are being fed a line of hooey here.

 

Yeah, I thought they were bragging that is was so flexible, it could easily be converted to produce FWD vehicles if desired.

 

My entire objection is that they didn't say what they meant.

Yeah, I know the truth, but not everybody does. The guys posting that stuff are generally well-respected people (esp. Charlie), and some people take what they say as gospel without pausing to think about what they meant. I think everyone should say what they mean, but it's especially important for Charlie because of his status here.

 

Wasn't the original plan to have the G8 production start in Australia, but move to Oshawa after a few years? How can this plant not build the car again?

 

The plan also involved more zeta vehicles in north america, cheap gas, and no dramatic increases in mpg. Oshawa could be retooled, but that would cost money GM doesnt have and take time Zeta doesnt have. Zeta in a way is already dead, as we know that the RWD platform is going smaller/lighter.

 

This is the point I was trying to make GM was planning on it. It could be done, they don't want to and have good reasons not to, but it could be done.


There are other reasons as well. The current Impala has strong sales with incentives. GM can make more money selling the current Impala instead building a new more expensive Impala that won't make as much money for GM.

I don't think anyone here would argue that the current Impala is not as good as the G8. But the G8 won't be built that much longer and the Impala apparently has enough life in it right now to sell more than the Malibu. The Impala will stay.

 

Why can't they sell the Impala & import the G8 as a Lumina? The already make the Lumina for the middle east so the have everything they need to make it, and the G8 was certified for the U.S. It wouldn't cost them anything to develope since everything is DONE. Would be a great choice for someone with a family coming in looking at a Camaro. Correct?

 

GM could probably do this. My point is that it wouldn't be an Impala. One might ask if Chevy needs another sedan. Does the Lumina name plate justify the price tag? An Impala would. I don't know if the Lumina does.

I could see this happening, but there is more certification to be done. I assume that the EPA numbers would carry over (I could be wrong about that), but the crash tests may have to be redone because of the new bumpers/fascia. While it would likely pass certification, it would still cost money to do it.

 

Let me make this clear:

Oshawa CANNOT build the G8.

GM North America WILL NOT change it's build process.

If GM were to build a sedan at Oshawa, it WOULD NOT be the G8, it would have been the cancelled GMX551 Impala.

CANNOT, WILL NOT, WOULD NOT.


I mean, you could be a woman with enough surgery, hormones, psychotherapy and counceling, right? So, I guess if GM wanted to go through a similar transformation.....I suppose, at exquisite cost, they could configure the Oshawa build process, supplier network, workforce, to build the G8/Commodore. But that just ain't gonna happen.


Stop being so **** and ridiculous ---PLEASE.

 

What are the chances of the GMX551 coming back. Wan't that load nearly baked before GM cancelled it. Thereofr it would be failry cheap to restart the program? I would think at some point GM would have to put something is in Oshawa? I certainly don't think the Impala will be Alpha based..as that would make it Malibu sized or smaller.

 

Sadly, I think that one is gone for good. I'm told that it was better looking than the Camaro.

 

There is more to building a car at an assembly plant than simply sending the cars down the line. From that standpoint and if that was the only issue, GM could most certainly build the G8 and any Zeta based vehicle on the Camaro assembly line. Factories setup is done lone before any stamping or casting machinary are installed. The Camaro line was set up with the intention of making other Zeta cars, including the RWD Impala.

The reason why you won't see the Camaro line make other Zetas isn't because of the factory, it's because of the suppliers.

Quick lesson.

The Camaro gains alot of it's parts from Holden Australia. There are many unique components made here, but much of the same parts under a G8, Commodore, Statesman, Caprice, and Lumina are the same parts under a Camaro.

From a North American standard, Holden's VE and WM cars are low production. The new Camaro, by those same standards is low production.

If GM had went ahead with Zeta based and North American made Impala, DTS, and Roadmaster/Park Avenue, the volume would have far outstripped the number of Zeta based vehicles in production. This would have required a massive new investment in expanding capacity of suppliers almost exclusively here in the North America. In short, GM would have had to spend money it (we now know) it didn't have to create essentially a whole new OEM network to supply North American Zeta production.

The Holden Zeta was made to be profitable within Holden's existing market of Australia, New Zealand, and the Middle East. The Statesman-Caprice figured in Korea and China as well as the Middle East because there was no way the home market would support the 1K or less WMs sold in Australia annually.

The G8 made money because of the volume, the fact that there were very few variations on them, the lowball development costs (compared to the typical GM-NA car), and the relatively low production cost. The Aussie to US dollar exchange rate played havoc with the math for a short time, but fortunately at the same time, G8 started selling above projections after a slow start, and volume made up for the exchange rate. Overall, G8 did well for GM.

The Camaro is far easier to make here in North America than a high volume Zeta sedan because it's components and subsystems can be sourced through the same network that supplies Holden and their cars. GM doesn't have to make any substantial investment to expand the supply base.

So the issue isn't that Oshawa "can't" make other Zeta cars. It's that creating the network to do this involves alot of money that GM doesn't have for a vehicle line that will have a lifespan not much beyond late next decade.

 

Can I send a few words your way?

Complete knock down kit...

 

It could make other Zeta cars, just not the G8. The G8/Commodore are Zeta 1. The Camaro and all other Zetas which would have gone to Oshawa (and elsewhere in NA), are/were Zeta 2.

Holden was to standardize to Zeta 2 at the next refresh. Like I said in a previous post, I'm not really sure if it's worth it for Holden to invest in standardization with NA right now for Zeta, since any future Zeta developments will be out of Australia. And Zeta is essentially done in North America after G8 and the 5th gen Camaro run their courses.