hotrodtodd74

7.0L works out to be 427 cubic inches!

hotrodtodd74

This new GM "world" RWD chassis -

Is it all new or is it based upon the V-chassis currently in use by Holden?

Also, do you know what the designation is for this chassis?

centric

If the new Z06 is a 427 . . .

Sign me up!

PacerX

I need to stomp the life out of a misconception here....

Nowadays, fully framed vehicles ARE NOT stiffer than unibodies.

No way, no how, ain't gonna happen. Pick a fully framed vehicle and compare it to an Aurora for natural frequency, torsion, etc...



Unibodies are generally lighter also.

guionM

Couple of misconceptions going on here red.

First of all, as I am sure anyone in who was ever stationed in the mid east will attest, the reason for B-cars popularity in the mid east went far beyond something as simple as air-conditioning. B-cars were tough, durable, and able to run the long distances between cities at a high rate of speed in 120+ degree tempreatures. Our Luminas simply couldn't do the job, and current Impalas are no better. Holdens can do that all day. Structurally, as I mentioned before, they are very tough. Middle east conditions aren't exactly great on a car. I'd give an Impala 1 month in those conditions before the struts boil, the suspension rips out, or the cooling system explodes...if that long.

Second, I am completely flabergasted that you of all people, are saying that the GTO should be "brilliant" handling for $35,000. I get a feeling that you have no problem laying down $45K on a BMW (complete with that unibody construction you now seem to despise ), yet for a car that's $10,000 less, seems it has to jump a whole lot higher to meet your standard. What gives?

As for the mainstream Australian products being mushier, if you are talking about the mainstream V6 powered Commodore Calais, then of course it's mushier. The way a family 1997 Caprice was mushier than the 1997 Impala SS.... or an Z28 vs an SS.

Don't you think you ought to compare GTO to Cobra instead of Corvette? Cobra will be in the same price range (if not slightly more expensive) as GTO at $32-35,000. Corvette starts at $45,000. I think I can safely say that Corvette's sales are safe. I can't think of too many people in the market for a hot handling 4 passenger coupe with a real trunk who's going to say: "Heck, I can simply pay almost a third more, and get a 2 seat sports car with a hatch back.

If it isn't hapening with a $46,500 BMW M3 coupe (that's $2,000 more than a Corvette ) I really don't think it'll happen with a $35,000 GTO, which is $10,000 cheaper.

redzed

A $45,000 BMW has instant name credibility and proven resale value - which means it leases cheaper than a less expensive domestic car. All things considered, a GTO has to be a better car than an M3, because the price differential isn't enough to justify its purchase otherwise. Nobody could argue with the logic behind a $25k Z28, but a $35K Pontiac illicits a few snickers. As a resident of California, I'm surprised you don't appreciate the poor regard most Americans have for upscale domestic products.

The upcoming V-series Cadillac CTS inspires alot more hope, if only because it (1) is produced on a modern domestic production line, (2) has a far better chassis, and (3) its design is five years newer than the RWD Holdens. This is the one upcoming domestic car that might take the shine off an M5, let alone the smaller M3.

guionM

Let me get this straight, you're saying a $35,000 car has to be better than a $46,000 one?! Think you ought to step back a minute and hear how you are sounding.

I'm glad you are in a position where a car costing $35,000 isn't far enough away in price to a $46,000 car to "justify it's purchase" (wasn't it you who said that there was no way you would ever buy a car under $30,000?). However, it's begining to seem to me that since you are making it's price an issue, maybe perhaps you really cannot afford either, after all we are talking about paying about 30% more for a car that delivers (beyond name) maybe 5% tops. Hmmm?

Anyway, with loaded front drive V6 Bonnevilles going for $34,000, and WS6 Trans Ams going for $37,000, I think Pontiac has the snickering at a $35,000 price tag thing covered.... how much are Mustang Cobra's again? And how much more did people actually pay for SSs over Z28s for that $1,000 worth of equptment?

You mean all those Holdens are thrown together in Billy Bob's garage way out in the outback?!

Ignoring that the Sigma chassis under the CTS has more than a few DNA shared with Holden's cars, and also overlooking that the Monaro actually has suspension upgrades over the Comodore sedan that came out in '97, and also the fact that the chassis on the M3 is basically a carryover from a bit more than 5 years ago, don't you think you should hold judgement till at least you or someone you know actually drives one (since you don't seem predisposed to take my word for it?

redzed

One's a Pontiac, the other's a BMW. One has proven resale value, prestige, reliability, and exclusivity. The other one shares its basic drivetrain with my $25k Camaro.


Also, with loaded front drive V6 Bonnevilles going for $34,000, and WS6 Trans Ams going for $37,000, I think Pontiac has the snickering at a $35,000 price tag thing covered....[/QUOTE]

Pontiac Bonneville SSEi: Dying
Firebird/Trans Am WS6: Dead

I'd say they're having alot of success selling $30K+ cars at Pontiac.

redzed

One's a Pontiac, the other's a BMW. One has proven resale value, prestige, reliability, and exclusivity. The other one shares its basic drivetrain with my $25k Camaro.


Also, with loaded front drive V6 Bonnevilles going for $34,000, and WS6 Trans Ams going for $37,000, I think Pontiac has the snickering at a $35,000 price tag thing covered....[/QUOTE]

Pontiac Bonneville SSEi: Dying
Firebird/Trans Am WS6: Dead

I'd say they're having alot of success selling $30K+ cars at Pontiac.

guionM

The CTSv shares a powertrain with a $25,000 Camaro, yet it has your praise?

It's pretty much agreed that all F-bodies were neglected, so that didn't kill 'em. Bonnevilles also don't make much sense next to cheaper Grand Prixs in the same showroom. But again we are comparing apples to oranges.

People are willing to pay $35,000 for a $25,000 Mustang with a motor and an afterthought rear suspension. A complete package GTO with only 20,000 cars annually, will do very well.... do you really worry about having an exclusive car? You do drive a Camaro.

redzed

The design is modern and the production line is domestic. Moreover, Cadillacs have a longer warranty than Pontiacs, and available Stabilitrack. Turn the electronics off, and the longer wheelbase of the CTS insures that you have a car with more predictable departures at the limits. Of the two, the CTS has better potential for ride and handling. Being a Cadillac, you can also count on better sound insulation.

I can "fly the flag" when a GM car is actually made in North America, but not Australia. American cars are a known quantity, Australian cars aren't, as of yet.

As far as a pushrod V8 in a Cadillac, the idea is regressive after the Northstar era. There again, it should yield a cheaper powertrain with superior performance for the money.

Ude-lose

why dont you just come out from the sart and say you don't like the fact that is made in australia.... simple.

IZ28

Of course we don't. Many feel a Pontiac GTO, the original American musclecar, should be all American obviously. It only makes sence!! We would like all of our Domestic cars built in the U.S. I'm sure any other wouldn't like the it reversed for them, especially with a car like the GTO.

I could kinda care less until I feel like getting technical. Then I think the car should be built here. But if the car is good its good. I would just like to see GM be able to do things themselves like it used to/should be without doing things like this and always needing some kind of help or whatever.

IMPALA64

I dont mind the GTO being built there. We will more than likely get a better built car than we would if it were assembled here in the states. Holden is GM, plain and simple, just like a Pontiac or a Chevy is GM. Ude-Lose...or anyone who knows for sure, how long has Holden been a GM product?

Ude-lose

i did a search and came up with this... although this site is specifically about the 'eh' model

http://www.ehholden.com.au/infhis2.htm