Percieved quality.

Like it or not Ford is not seen as a maker of quality cars and no where near the level of imports. Their whole "Look again" campain is mega stupid. I mean I looked and everything looked the same as it did 3 years ago.

Taurus- is out sold by Camry (and possibly Accord)...Impala has been steadily creaping up too. Add the whole W car line against the Sable/Taurus and GM most likely wins. Also of note...You want a FWD mid-sized sedan and all you get a Ford dealer is Taurus. At a GM dealer you get the Impala and Malibu. Plus teh Taurus has the worst resale in its class.

Focus- Was nearly outsold by the 20 year old Cavalier last year. Cobalt will be a seriosu competitor.

Ranger- I think the Colorado and Canyon will change this

Escape- Good truck...Equinox looks better and is priced very good...could easily dethrone Escape

Explorer- Last time I looked sales were neck and neck between the Envoy/Trailblazer and Explorer/Mountainer

Mustang- The bright spot.

Panther Cars- I really think these would loose 50% of thier sales over night if someone went after them with decently executed large RWD car. They sell because tehy are alone in thier class..and lately have bought thier share of bad press.


Either way Ford is struggling to keep sales leads in key catagories and has no new earth shaking product really in the pipline that can keep pace.

Futura= watered down Madza6

Freestyle/500= Watered down Volvo. Plus I question that there is a market for teh Freestyle.

Focus will rot.

Again Toyota sells more Camrys and Corrolla's I think. Chevy's sales I really believe are watered down because of GM's brands.

Far as not dropping the ball....it's eaier said then done....considering lately they have dropped the ball alot more then not.

 

All interiors are plastic...it's just what they are painted to look like.

If I wanted to see wood on a drive I would take a ride in the forest. If I wanted to see aluminum I would look at a soda can...

 

Here's a better shot of the interior...
LINKY

Also, go look at the lariat interior with woodgrains and leather...
it's an option on the same link, at right side of screen.

Man, no wonder people don't want cars any more, eh?

I also agree with Z28x, people think too much of the interiors in imports. I recently got shafted into a Corolla on a business trip to Pittsburgh - the airbag seam on the dash in front of the passenger was mis-matched by 3/8 to 1/2 inch! I could see inside the thing! The arm rests didn't line up right, and the courtesy lamp was mounted crooked. I HATED that car - no way I'd EVER own one. BTW, it had 626 miles on it when I got in.

Just last Wednesday, I went to lunch with a guy in a 2003 Altima - I sat in the back. Every bump we hit resulted in a tuning-fork like sound from the trunk... loud too. It was the trunk lid springs - there was no rubber isolator between them, to they collided and rattled with every bump. The arm rests didn't fit well, and the moulding around the rear door was kinked and misaligned. He claimed the rattle bugged him, but he didn't care, it was a company rental. It had like 1200 miles on it. It rode nice and had a nice audio system, but I'd commit hairy-carey before I'd ride 220 miles in that car like he did!

 

Are you aware that the Focus is getting it's own magazine starting next month?

A sister publication to 5.0 and Fast Fords, it is geared towards providing how-to's and tuner info for the Focus alone.

Not bad... "for a car that will rot".

Wager?

[edit] - I found a link... Focus Fanatic
Looks like the Mustang has a little brother now...

 

Camaro had plenty of magazines..look where it is now

 

I magazine for just the Focus................that boggles my mind. No way can there be a market for that. It seems like maybe an attempt to boost that market.

 

Ford is not the publisher.

I doubt seriously if Primedia is going to risk a big pile of money (not to mention reputation) on a fly-by-nite rag. I think they are seeing the potential for this. Maybe based on letters, maybe on response cards, maybe from an on-line poll - I dunno.

But I DO agree that a rag like that could only bolster sales because it will appeal to the ricer/tuner crowd that is now looking at import rags and LowRider.

 

List 'em...

 

I guess I meant magazines that focused on them....

You have to keep in mind GM has a bit more performance models than Ford.

With Ford since 1970 you have Mustang, Lightning, and maybe some Cougars, T-birds and Foci.

With GM you have GTO's, F-bodies, Grand Nationals, J-bodies, Syclones, ect. It is much easier to just group them in mags liek GM High Tech Performance.


Either way...the Focus doesn't really have that huge a following compared to it's competition....I really don't see why it hasit's own mag.

 

Are you kidding me with this...

"Ford had Mustang, Lightning, maybe some Cougars, T-birds, and Foci..."
and Torino GTs with 429 SCJs,
and Gran Sports with 351-4V's
and Ranchero GTs with 351C/429 engines
and Talladegas with 429s SHOguns
and Cyclone Spoilers with 429's
and Comet GTs with 4V-302's
and Galaxies with 429's
and Mavericks
and German 2.8 Capris
and 5.0 Capris
and Merkur XR4Tis
and Turbo Probes
and oodles more I can roll off if you feel the need to know.
That doesn't include all the Ford-powered cars that Ford didn't claim like the DeTomaso Pantera, DeLorean, Panoz, Shelbys, and others, even including 5.0 Miatas.

You don't think there are generic Ford performance rags too?

It's much easier to group them. Yup. That's the deal. Okey-dokey.

Back to my point...
I'll wager you that the Focus is here for a while.

And overall, I think Ford is doing OK for now.
They need to keep fighting the imports - HARD too, but I think Ford is looking pretty good into the foreseeable future.

 

You can't compare the number of Ford's performance vehicles to GM, not even close. Let's face it.............the Mustang is about it. Look at any magazine that does all makes and you will find so many GM vehicles that they have to really search for non-Mustang Ford performance vehicles(this was stated by the editor). An example, this month's Popular Hotrodding. Cover story-55' Chevy and the only 2 other cars highlighted are a GTO and a Chevelle. This is excluding the other f-body related stuff and a look back at thier 57' Chevy project car. There is only one article with a Ford in it, and it is a Mustang. This is not the exception, it is generally the rule.
Go to any cruise or car show and what do you see. GM everywhere! Here is an example. I went to a few local car shows that had about 100-150 cars at each. There are a few old Mustangs(4-5) a few new ones and a few 30's Ford based hotrods (with mostly chevy engines) and a stray Ford model here and there. There are a few Mopars(5-10 or so) and almost all the rest are GM brands. At the track, it's the same story. Only Fox body or newer Mustangs are there for Ford, while there are so many different vehicles for GM.

Ford has other performance oriented cars like you listed but they aren't really widely modified, not like a Chevelle, Nova, GN, 442, GTO, Corvette, ect.

 

You guys really crack me up sometimes!!

Ford has about 4,000 dealers nationwide.

GM has over 7,400 nationwide, and about 5,000 of that is Chevrolet alone!

GM sold 294,000 cars in January 2003, Ford sold 200,000. This means each GM dealer sold roughly 40 cars per month average, while each Ford dealer alone sold an average of 50!

http://media.gm.com/news/sales/03020...ary_sales.html
http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir...item_id=377870

As far as quality, from the late 80s till their recall disasters of the past few years Ford was known as a top quality US car, only behind Buick (How quick we forget the rest of GM was in the basement just 5 years ago!).

Wanna talk performance do ya? Ford went so far as to put dual exhausts on standard V6 Thunderbirds and all Crown Vics in the mid 80's! The only true dual exhaust system besides Mustang & Corvette in the industry at the time! High output Mustang engines went into Lincoln Mark 7s!! Turbocharged 4 cylinder T-birds outran GM's V8 coupes. SHO Taurus', Mercury Marauders, Suprcharged T-birds, SVT Focus, SVT Contours, even the Lincoln Mark 8 LSC all fairly recent performance cars (seems someone already covered the 70s and part of the 80's very well .

Now, since Chevrolet alone has more dealers & development budget as Ford, yet is always in a sales race with them, lets see what Chevrolet has had over that same time (since 1970), discounting the obvious Camaro & Corvette:

Chevelle SS396
Chevelle SS454
Laguna S-3 454
Monza Spyder 5.0 V8
Monte Carlo SS
Impala SS
I'll even throw in the Monte Carlo 454 (though it was never marketed as anything than a luxury car)

I Think that about covers it?

If you want to tag team Ford (because the same size Chevrolet Motor Division comes up hella short) let's throw in Pontiac for laughs (again, omitting the f-body):

GTO: LeMans based
GTO: Ventura based (don't laugh, it was still quick for it's day)
NASCAR based Grand Prix fastback
Turbo Grand Prix
Turbo Sunbird GT
Turbo Grand Am GT
Grand Prix GTP

As you can see, even with GM's 2 largest divisions (with more resources and dealers than Ford), it still doesn't add up to what Ford has managed to do since the 70s.

That also says nothing about Don Peterson requiring all his engineers and senior management to take Bondurant's performance driving course that filtered to all new models, and many existing ones. Don't confuse what GM and Chevrolet have comming down the pipeline in the future with what Ford has already done to date.

Let's not EVEN talk about Ford not having performance models. We really don't want to go there!

 

I have to balance off your Ford-skepticism, with my Ford-optimism.

You've missed my point. Improvements are always good, and that was my key points. If Ford can improve on things, and price them competitively, i don't see why they'd be screwed just because Gm is selling the same old product for a little less. Today, the buyers perception of Ford is no different than last years or the year before; and Ford has still maintained their title of best selling brand. All their products are near the end of their life-line, and they still continue to sell more Fords than Chevy's and Toyota's. Through the worst, they've still sold, and I really think the worst is behind them.

No domestics short of Cadillac and Lincoln is seen as a maker of quality cars. Even they donĦ't hold a candle to Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, and MB as far as perceived quality.

It is mega stupid. But Ford isn't the only one with stupid lines. I bet you think the "We'll be there" ad is ingenious right? Be where? It should read "In boring Carville, weĦ'll be there". It makes them sound hypocritical since they weren't there for the Camaro towards the end. How about the "Like A Rock" line? What's so appealing about a rock? It's hard, crude, ugly, uncomfortable, rough in and around the edges, and is good for almost nothing in its unprocessed state. If their trucks are really like a Rock, I don't want anything to do with them, lol. How about "Fuel for the soul"? lol. So much for it being the"Excitement division". I don't feel any excited over their products. The only exciting vehicle they offered was the Firebirds which they've killed off . Half of their current offerings are cladding laden fwd slushbox's with archaic v6's that get out-powered by smaller N/A 6's. Someone once said most of them resemble ribbed condoms due to the ribbed side claddings, and I agree. The GTO is the only upcoming Pontiac that I'm really excited about, and even it doesn't do it for me in the styling department (good looking but too conservative for my taste).

When was the last "real" Taurus redesign and has Ford really invested in it over the last half a decade? It was the best selling car from it's intro in the late 80's well into the mid 90's. You can't tell me that it didn't have potential because it did. Ford dropped the ball on the taurus after 96. The newer models simply suck. I'm surprised they even sell as much as they do (thanks to fleet sales). Hopefully a "real" redesign or a good replacement will change that, and it'll go back to being a best seller. Like I said, the potential was there, and it could be there with a good redesign. Even with it being the POS it is, through June it held a 50,000 unit lead on the Impala.

Nearly? The cavvy is a cheap pos, northing less, nothing more. The only reason they sell is due to them costing next to nothing. With the rebates and everything, Chevy is basically giving them away. No wonder i don't see see any real comparisons between it and the import sport compacts. It's a complete joke, more so than the focus which is the only REAL american compact to even come close to being compared to the civics/corollas. The Focus is successful globally, and was a few years ago, the best selling car in the world. Over in Europe, the cavy would be looked upon as nothing but overcooked tin and metal with wheels. I donĦĤt think the Cobalt will be that much better since I'm not really impressed with the new Ion. I'm also convinced GM can't build a half decent sport compact. Their compact division (Saturn) can't get anything right, and has now given into using Honda engines on their Vue Redline. I doubt the Cobalt will have the potential the Focus had.

You "think"? Will you quit getting ahead of yourself? Assumptions/forecasts and facts/real time=2 different things. I am talking about "NOW". The Ranger has been the best selling compact truck for as long as remember, and it currently is the best selling compact truck until the sales #'s prove otherwise. The Colorado and Canyon are newer so we'll see. Hopefully both their sales combined will reach or surpass the out-dated Ranger. If not, something is definitely wrong.

I don't even know what the Equinox is. Looks are subjective and I don't know about its pricing. For some reason, i'm picturing a baby TB. Like most other GM SUV's and trucks, I like the TB. We'll have to wait and see. For now, it will be playing catch-up

As we speak, the Explorer is the 5th best selling vehicle. The TB is somewhere in the mid to higher teens I think, and the Envoy isn't even in the top 20. I doubt TB and Envoy sales combined would surpass explorer sales let alone Mountainer/Explorer sales combined.


Another car Ford has left out in the dust to dry. A competitor might actually be good for the panther cars. At least Ford wouldn't be lazy with it due to fear of losing sales.

That's your opinion my friend. All their upcoming cars looking exciting to me, more so than their GM counterpart.

Is a mazda6 type vehicle a bad thing? The 6 looks damn good. And how watered down? A good bit of that 6's engine/chassis was co-developed with Ford. I doubt it'll be watered down; more like a sister car or an exact copy.

Nothing wrong with Volvo's. They're quality safe cars in fact.

Wow, 2 of their (toyota's) cars outsell their Ford counterparts. How about the rest of their lineup? Didn't think so. I like how you go around and come out with an excuse for Chevy sales sagging. For Ford, it's cause they're pos's; For chevy, It's because the other GM brands steal sales. Lol. How about labeling them the pos's that they are too? Chevy cars short of the corvette and camaro are pathetic and outdated (styling and technical wise). Chevy investing all their money into trucks was/is to blame.

They've dropped the ball, and they'll have to pick it right back up, polish the dirt off it, and worry more about the future instead of the past.

You know, this brought something to my attention. Domestic cars do suck, lol. It's no wonder we're losing market share to the imports, even with our crazy incentive binges. At this rate, and if changes aren't made, Ford and GM will be broke by 2020. If the japs figure out a way to make "REAL" trucks and Suv's, we'll be in serious trouble .

 

No, the whole point is, where do you ever see these other Ford cars being modified? Ford People modify Mustangs and that is about it. That goes for 60's to present. When was the last time you saw a modified SHO somewhere, or Mark 8's, or Contour. I think the W-body performance alone out there is greater than those 3 combined and that is still nothing like the market for Chevelles, and GTO's, Impalas, and other muscle cars. It is not an argument about what Ford put out or how many they sell, it is about the aftermarket for these cars.

 

Equinox

http://www.nctd.com/sneakpreview.cfm?ReviewID=35

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...2/021988-E.jpg

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...2/021987-E.jpg