Branden, what age group are you? I have seen you talk about what your generation likes a few times and it boggles my mind. T-tops, ground effects, etc. I don't think you can classify any generation like this.

I purchased my camaro 2 months after I turned 18 in 1997. It was slightly used with ~23K miles. Hardtop, cloth, cassette, etc

It was just "the bear 95"

Exactly what I was looking for.


Jason

 

Your connection of the relationship between price increases and sales decline, is not sound. This is simple correlation, not causation. The problem exists with the fact that the product was not reasonably refreshed.

What happened to the pricing of the mustang over the same period of time? No doubt that increased ... yet the outcome is different .... and the answer is .... the reasonably updated the model.

Car buying is not a rational mathematical act. People buy cars because it represents something they want to be perceived as ....
Just look at SUV's .... people are buying them ... Why? Because they are cheap? Not likely Cheap on gas or Insurance?... No Is it because the Soccer Moms need to go off road? .... No ... It because it is a symbol of status, a representation of what they "think" they need, and it relates to how they want to be seen by others.

It all has to do with perceptions and emotions. If GM builds a car that presses the right buttons in people's emotions ... then they mortgage the house to buy it , defer other purchases, work at Walmart on the weekend... they don't quible over a few grand.

Emotions have the greatest influence on the demand curve ...

If I've got to have it .... I have to buy it.

Ted

 

It is in the younger generation. When your car expenses are 50%+ of your income, price is very important.

 

gee lets see i can buy a 02 v6 camaro for $30*** or a v8 mustang for $28*** hmmm let me think.

 

It has very little to do with emotions in reality. The Impala is as unemotional as they come...yet sells well....same with the Accord and Camry best selling cars in the world...yet no emotion. People buy these car because the synergy of price, features, size, performance, and status all hits a sweetspot that makes the car valuable. Value sells...it is the art of making people feel they are getting thier money's worth. People pay $50K dollars for a Vette because they feel that it is worth it...the name..the legend...the performance... People by the Z28 because for the performance is valuable enough to make it worth it's price. V6 Camaro sales have declined because it is no longer a good value...the competion makes a flat out better car at the same or lower price. The fourth gen V6 could have been a good value again at a lower price. I am willing to bet there were alot more V6 Camaro's sold when the base price was $12-16K when when it was at it's final $19K price.

IMO the 4th gen hit the highest it could go price wise without infringing on a market that requires a much better car than the Camaro can ever be...mainly because that is teh Corvettes market. They will sell alot more 340 HP $23K cars than they would 400HP $27K cars. It's all about balancing values and extremes.

Car companies don't worth about people who buy on emotions since they are already emotionally tied to a product they are much more likely to buy it.

car makers go after buyers who are more into getting the best value...or car for thier dollar because this is the place where you see the most growth. Simply put...value gets them in the door....teh car gets them emotionally attached.

Man I feel wiser after that post.

 

Young people want F-bodies??? Hardly. My college class is made up of about 25 people from aged 18-32 (I'm 28 and one guy is 32, almost all of the rest is under 23)

They are so brain washed by V-tec it's not funny. One guys dad has a 70 Trans Am, mint, with a 428---fast as hell.
Kid wants an Mitu Evo---4 doors, thats sad.

No one in the class gives a hoot about the F-body, most think they still make it, and most bash the pushrod arcetrecture.
They dream of BMW's and Porsche and wil likely never to be able top afford them. So, souped up Celicas and Hondas also do it for them.

Also most young people I know coudln't afford one either, maybe a new Civic but not a $ 27+ (CDN)

Yes, there are lots of downfalls of the F-body--but performance and bang for your buck and looks aren't one of them.

My analysis--Kids are stupid
They watch downloaded videos, listen to blatant rumours and accept them as fact.

And dealers are bad---loading up F-bdoes to usaully over 40K (CDN)

Maybe late 20's and 30's want an F-body----we grew up with the 3rd gen, when there was no FWD performance cars.
Kids today........

 

So in your wise post, you state that emotions have nothing to do with the purchase of a car like Camaro, and go on to compare it with a Camry and an Accord.

Do you understand that cars like Camaro, Mustang, Corvette, etc are all about emotion ?!??!?! Why else would someone even buy a car like this unless they had a passion for the car?!?! To go haul the family around like their Accord?!?!?

Some of your ideas and examples are so bizarre.

 

Hey not cool! I'm 19 and I can say while a lot of my generation is brain washed with this import crap, you cant say we all are. Where I'm from in Texas its not hard to find a core group of kids around my age that are in love with American muscle. We are not stupid. Just about everyone I know laughs at ricers. I’m really sick of being stereotyped into the ricer crowd just because of my age. My age group can be won over by a new Camaro, it just has to be priced and marketed right. Sorry for the short post, I would have made a better argument if class wasn’t in 10 minutes.

 

Branden, I have never seen a $25,000 V6 Camaro. If you paid that for yours, the word rape comes to mind. Not questioning you on what you paid, but even out here in Southern "dealer markup" California, I haven't seen anything but completly loaded V6s costing that much.

Darth already hit on your car buying isn't emotional point, so I'll let that horse lie dead.

As soon as I get some time, I'll see if I can find the demographics for Camaros over the years. The Average Mustang buyer is in their early 30s, yet Mustang is the hottest selling car in the sports coupe catagory. Young people (meaning under 25) do buy Mustangs, but it isn't their core audience. Neither is Camaro.

Also, if one can't afford a $19,000-23,000 car, that person should stick with a Kia or Neon. The average price of a new car today is $30,000. Last I checked, it wasn't a constitutional right for someone to buy 4 wheeled rockets for $20,000. Neon's SRT fit's this bill neatly, and it's the only car to do this.

For someone to whine that $24,000 or even $28,000 is too much top pay for a car with the performance of a LS1 Z28 or Formula Firebird really makes me sick. It's as if someone should just hand them the keys to anything they want. The average price of a new car is $30,000 for crissake!

How about this concept:"If one want something, then work towards it". If they are buying $24,000 + markup WRXs and are already lining up for a chance to purchase $30,000 Evo VIIs, while they are still buying $26,000 Mustang GTs, I it's glaringly obvious that it isn't price keeping younger people out of Camaros. If you can get a car with dependable reputation like a (yawn) Honda, then buy pieces as you can afford them, or you can buy a base Camaro, I really hate to say this, but I see their point. To change this, you'll need a Ecotech base 5th gen with alot of aftermarket support in a contemporary body. But it's not price keeping anyone away. That simply doesn't hold water.

Now, if you want to look at what you get on the base models, or GM's annoying forced packages, then I'm with you all the way!

 

and the Camaro, Mustang and Corvette make up what percentage of total cars sold?????

People who buy a car based on emotion are already locked in....car makers don't care about trying to gain these buyers because they are in...hook, line, and sinker...

The other 90% of the buying public buys cars based on value....which is why boring, unemotional cars are always the top sellers. Its the mixure of status, quality, desireabilty, and and price...all to varying degrees that make a car valueable. GM needs to find a sweet spot that it can gain buyers for the Camaro at in this niche. In short GM needs to win buyers that normally wouldn;t think Camaro...and raising the price is not it.

Also i understand the average car is $30,000....but many cars have been redone since the Camaro was new and have many more advances. It's almost like building a Computer and then 10 years down the road realizing the competition has gotten better and is elling thier PC's for $1,000 more than you...so you mark up your PC's accordingly without making a better product....

Also a V6 Camaro is not the $19,000 car that it MSRP's for.....that simple...you compare it to other $19,000 cars and it's a joke.

 

Here is your near $25K Camaro

Here is my sticker
http://www.gminsidenews.com/sticker.jpg

I made it black and white so it loads quicker.

Also the $18,415 Base price does not include the $575 destination charge added later that gives you the $19,000+ sticker on Chevy's website. My car aside from the sports appearence package really didn't have many options that you wouldn't see in the average V6 camaro. The ISB alone makes it cost over $20,000. I needed an automatic because I drive in the city...and that is a pretty hefty price for an option. I didn't get leather seats, chrome wheels, monsoon audio, or steering wheel controls which would have made it a loaded car. There was a Red V6 convertable on one lot here that didn;t even have a Y87 package that cost $30K+. I only paid $21 for mine since I git a deal...

All this for a car that was only started round $12K when it came out. Keep in mind the Z28 only went up ~$3,000 over the same period.

 

Good grief! Is that $1,800 just for the sports appearence package?! Overall, I think you would have been better off by simply getting a base (as possible) Z28!

My impulse would have been to skip the sport appearence package & the Automatic, but while my 5 speed manual SC never had a problem with urban California traffic (still original when I sold it at 140,000 miles), and neither did my 5.0, while my Z28's clutch was comparatively sh*tty. It ripped in half at 45,000 miles, so I won't blame you for going with the automatic.

 

Is ASR on an automatic, 200 hp, 3500 lb car really necessary? No offense but with that and the other options, it looks like somebody checked off the boxes with their 16 yr old daughter in mind.

I realize you bought this off the lot but.....
If you were to skip the ASR, "sport package" and power seat, you would be down to $22,475. Just saved $2000 that can be put towards making the car unique (aka mods ) There are PLENTY of performance and appearance items for the 3800 F-bodies

If you got the manual with hard tops (not critcizing, just an observation) an additional $1810 (now down to $21,665) would be saved.

That's $3800 (and xxx amount of weight) with which to set your car apart from the crowd and infuriate the local ricers at the stoplight. Just a thought.

 

Stefan,

I didn't mean to stereo-type ALL kids--just the ones in my class. I also said, "they" as in the kids in my classes--not you.

Great to see you respect the muscle cars of the past. Actually I found a kid in my class today who is 19 and likes older musclecars.....maybe there is a glimmer of hope

 

The thing is unless your order the car from foctory alot of opyions come on there no matter what. For instance ISB and and ASR are pretty much standard on any car at the dealer. Power seat just happened to be there. I needed an auto since I drive in the city all the time. As for the sport appearence package and T-tops if I was getting a V6 it had to look good....I really wanst to worried bout a few thousand dollars..but most people my age would. I get loads of compliments on the car too oddly they always come from people who don't drive F-bodies.