I've been playing the devails advocate so often, I just want to clear up a few things and note a few random thoughts.

1. I don't believe GM is going to kill any divisions. I do believe GM will kill alot of repetitious models. I also believe it's simply GM's turn in the hot seat. Problems seem to rotate from Ford to Chrysler to GM.

2. Regardless as to what they are trying to make us believe, GM is diverting it's resources towards their new big trucks & SUVs, and perhaps bringing them out early. I can't really blame them. Remember a couple of years ago when Ford was sweating bullets over the F150 introduction? It paved the way for everything else.

3. I think Holden is headed downhill. I know enough to realize that people don't like change, and with Mr. Mooney of Cadillac as new CEO of Holden there's likely to be alot of exagerated animosity. But I'm not quite ready to say Holden's doomed. They are actively trying to get the Monaro to market, despite GM-NA killing Zeta for North America production.

4. Going back to the F150 comparison, keeping in mind that the new Mustang followed, I still suspect that Camaro's replacement will follow as well. There is simply too much apparent critical mass going in favor of it right now for it to be derailed. I don't believe it's been delayed. If it has, regardless of the reason, it's going to be a none too flattering picture of the "new" GM. There will no longer be the ability of hiding behind the "old management".

5. Mustang is on the verge of becoming the ultimate American Icon. There is nothing like it, and if I'm wrong about Camaro's replacement Mustang will be the last true American sports coupe. When you have as many variations and special editions as Ford seems to have planned for the car, it's going to have the excitement factor of the American auto industry for the forseeable future.

6. I don't know if things have changed with Camaro's replacement, but I believe it was going to be IRS simply because GM seemed to be going IRS across the board. If the car was put on hold or cancelled, Evoks idea was an irrisistable way of getting one to market without missing a beat. Moving the car to another chassis (ie: Kappa) would mean starting from the bottom and taking 4-5 years to develop it. The Kappa doesn't have any testing or development done for a V8, so you'd be starting over, while everything Evok mentioned was already done, tested, and compliant.

7. Chrysler is almost overdoing it with the Charger=Performance mentality. 1st, Charger R/T has the Hemi. Then, the Charger has a Daytona edition. Now, the Charger has an SRT-8 version....... and the car isn't even out yet!!! At this rate, we'll have a V10 Viper powered Charger a few weeks before the 1st Charger is delivered. Note to Dodge: OK, we believe you. Charger is all about performance!

8. I don't believe Buick is going to forgo a RWD sedan. Sigma can fit under a Buick skin just as well as a Zeta can. Best of all, at Buick prices, you don't have to worry about the costs of the chassis.

9. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the next Thunderbird and the Mercury Cougar wind up being twins under the skin, sharing a majority of the D2C Mustang structure.

10. The G6 isn't a bad car. I don't think it's a flop. But GM's snails pace introductions where they only bring out a model per year is giving that impression. If GM once was able to bring out an entire model line, then they should be able to today. GM's MAJOR problem is that they can't or don't want to get models out in a reasonably quick timeframe. There's just too many people capable of derailing, stalling, or playing petty politics with cars that are otherwise needed and/or ready for production.

 

So wait, What we would have is a Thunderbird and Cougar as twins off the mustang platform, with a rumoured lincoln cousin in the mix (possibly released a year later)?
hmm. The spirit of the Fox-Body lives on?

 

I heard that the soonest GM could bring out there new large SUV's and trucks would be 1-2 months sooner at best. While GM was planning on unveiling these new trucks @ 06 NAIAS it now looks like they should hid the road in Nov/Dec of 05.

 

They will be out before NAIAS. That leaves me to wonder, will they still show them (debut wise) at the NAIAS and have them be their big introductions or will other vehicles be showcased? They have to make a splash with the trucks, I'm just curious as to when/where before their releases.

 

I think that since SUV's are coming out first, keep that on track and get the trucks here faster.

 

1.Good, I don't want to see Pontiac disappear
2.Yeah, they do need to get'em out, and soon
3.Could care less about holden
4.So your saying Lutz has his rep on the line?
5.In other words, If gm doesnt release a new Camaro soon, they'll be locked out of the pony car market for the forseeable future?
6.still though, I'd like that big'ol 9.5" rear behind my 5th gen!!
7.But it's still not a Charger
8.A turbo'd 3.9 sigma chassised Buick would be a worthy sucessor to the GNX
9.So the D2C is the 21st century Fox body?
10.The definatly botched the launch. They'd better not treat the Camaro this way.

 

Pontiac likely won't disappear, nor Buick. But SOMETHING has to change

 

i only have a second so here
5.yep. true american icon just like the old mustang. GM always wanted to tople it with the camaro (dont' say vette cause thats a different story), so GM takes a step back (ending camaro production) to look at the market. and what happens?!?!? well low and behold ford charges. i remember when right around 2002 when the camaro was done with production everyone was complaining that ford was teasing GM about not having a car in the market. well, they did more than tease, and got bit (cobra pun).
7. While you laugh the public is being force fed the charger. sounds like a good marketing strategy to me.

 

Always interesting to read your thoughts.

I do agree the repetitious models have to go and they must figure out a way to get cars/trucks into the dealers showroom faster.

 

I guess I'm starting to see a silver lining here.........

Maybe with some of the "old guard" heading off into the sunset, the decisions made because of political turf and those who were just "doing their job" will be a thing of the past.

Maybe GM will start building cars to beat the competition and not each other.

Maybe GM will stop with the overlapping product that does nothing but suck funds out of the kitty....

Maybe instead of Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Caddillac, Saturn, Saab, GMC dealerships, we'll just see GENERAL MOTORS dealerships and we can go in and pick out the vehicle we want.....in one place.....

Maybe they'll pool their resources and GM will return as a LEADER and not a follower......

 

If GM can elimnate repitious models and put all the money wasted on that into developing fewer and better products, then I see no reason for them not to return to the glory days. If we keep building repitious models and benchmarking, then GM will continue to die its slow death for another 10 to 20 years, just like its been slowly dying for the past 25.

 

Now that would be cool. However I'm not sure every dealership has the real estate to handle enough models from each brand to make that worthwhile.

 

#4, #6, and #10 make me good again concerning GM.

Concerning the excitement Ford can build with Mustang special editions, You think a new Camaro can compete with that specifically (special editions). They're drawing entirely on the past (or 'nostalgia' for you in marketing) with the (Bullit, CT 500, Cobra), while the Camaro didn't really have an special edition as I can remember outside the IROC models.

You think they could possible counter this by allowing customers again to mix and match trim levels (like RS/Z28) assuming we get more than base, Z28 and SS?

 

Sure. An RS "bang for the buck" type of Z28 ala Mustang LX. How about a "Yenko" Z28? An SS that is not an SLP piece, but rather a true higher-performing option? An IROC version (not sure of the legalities of this - but its been 15 years since there was such a thing).

Just some random thoughts.

 

Now there's an idea. I've never thought of that.

I like it....