FBodFather follow up.... great article...
from the great F-Bod Father..
Good afternoon, all,
I hope I did not offend too many people with my 'rant' about why I'm proud
to work for GM.
I only posted it on one website..........SS Owners Association.......and
I'm grateful for the comments I got back both on that site and from many of
you personally.
However, if you go to several other sites, you will see that there are
people that believe I invented the numbers......or that I personally killed
the Camaro.........or that I actually kidnapped the Lindberg
baby......................................(I also realize that some people
will never change.....)
I'm attaching something from the Tri- County Times...........you no longer
have to take my word for it..............
I'm grateful to you for your continued faith in GM and its products.....and
I'm thankful for your friendship.
Here's the article........enjoy!
--------------------------------------------------------
I hope I did not offend too many people with my 'rant' about why I'm proud
to work for GM.
I only posted it on one website..........SS Owners Association.......and
I'm grateful for the comments I got back both on that site and from many of
you personally.
However, if you go to several other sites, you will see that there are
people that believe I invented the numbers......or that I personally killed
the Camaro.........or that I actually kidnapped the Lindberg
baby......................................(I also realize that some people
will never change.....)
I'm attaching something from the Tri- County Times...........you no longer
have to take my word for it..............
I'm grateful to you for your continued faith in GM and its products.....and
I'm thankful for your friendship.
Here's the article........enjoy!
--------------------------------------------------------
Re: FBodFather follow up.... great article...
The article...
Some things never change
There's a Toyota ad running currently that brags about the fact that they have eight manufacturing plants in the
U.S. building more than a million vehicles a year. The ad then finishes with some patriotic music and the statement
"Toyota - a company that has created over 200,000 U.S. jobs - a company proud to do its small part to add to the
landscape of America."
Pass the barf bag please.
Take just four or five minutes to read this article. Read some actual facts about the U.S. auto industry, not the
spin put out by those wiley Japanese.
In terms of quality, of Toyota's eight plants, their best quality ranking is 16th. Of the top 10 plants for
quality, GM has eight of the top 10 and four of the top five.
And then there's the myth of the happy, teamwork-oriented worker who labors in a unionless paradise surrounded by
caring Japanese employers who only have his or her best interest at heart.
Fact: Toyota workers work for less money and are five times more likely than a GM worker to sustain an on-the-job
injury and 10 times more likely to be injured seriously enough to lose work days.
Toyota likes to propagate the myth of their commitment to the environment as evidenced by the standard set by the
Prius. What you don't hear about are the scores of Prius owners who are extremely unhappy with the performance and
mileage of their Prius. Ads claim 60 mpg - the reality is that many Prius owners get about half that mileage -
about 36 mpg. GM has five models that get similar mileage to the Prius and carry no price premium like the Prius -
but you never read about that.
If GM had a vehicle that advertised 60 mpg but actually delivered 36 mpg, you can bet that it would be front page
news, plus a nice segment on 60 Minutes.
But I digress. My point is that there is an incredibly unfair double standard in the media these days.
Inexplicably, U.S. bashing has become the fashionable thing to do. There's no better example than the constant warm
fuzzy stories churned out regularly about Toyota's legendary teamwork, safety and quality. And yet, the facts
simply don't bear this out. The fact is that Toyota gets a free ride from our lazy and complicit media.
But it's time to separate fact from fiction. Toyota is, and has been, waging a very successful PR war with way too
much assistance from our media. This results in a skewed viewpoint that dramatically affects how buyers perceive a
new car purchase.
For instance, how many of you know that Chevrolet was the best selling passenger car brand in the U.S. last year?
How many of you know that for three years in a row, Cadillac has sold more luxury cars than anyone else - including
Lexus and BMW?
How many of you are aware that, according to J.D. Power, GM was the number one multi-line manufacturer in Sales
Satisfaction last year? Where was Toyota (including Lexus)? Seventh place.
GM was ranked second in the critical Customer Service Satisfaction index in multi-line manufacturers last year.
Where was Toyota? Fifth place.
GM's lowest quality-rated vehicle is the Pontiac Vibe, assembled in California by - you guessed it - Toyota.
While Toyota is wrapping itself in the American flag with paid advertisements and help from our incompetent media,
GM, Ford and Chrysler manufactured over 75 percent of all vehicles built in the U.S. last year. And their average
domestic content is 82 percent. Toyota's is 40 percent (Lexus is 3 percent).
Every 100 GM, Ford or Chrysler vehicles produced in the U.S. supports the livelihood of 23 full-time workers.
Conversely, every point share gained by Toyota represents 18,000 lost American jobs and countless profit dollars
that are shipped overseas to Japan.
I am not suggesting that GM, Ford or Chrysler needs your charity, but I am suggesting that you should know the
facts before you buy.
In the book "Ghost Soldiers," the author recounts the story of the Bataan Death March. When the Americans arrived
at their destination with over half of them dead due to unspeakable cruelties from their captors, the camp
commander stood on a box and shouted, "You Americans are the enemy, you will always be the enemy, one hundred years
from now we will still be enemies."
What has changed since then?
Think about that the next time you go to buy a Toyota.
Some things never change
There's a Toyota ad running currently that brags about the fact that they have eight manufacturing plants in the
U.S. building more than a million vehicles a year. The ad then finishes with some patriotic music and the statement
"Toyota - a company that has created over 200,000 U.S. jobs - a company proud to do its small part to add to the
landscape of America."
Pass the barf bag please.
Take just four or five minutes to read this article. Read some actual facts about the U.S. auto industry, not the
spin put out by those wiley Japanese.
In terms of quality, of Toyota's eight plants, their best quality ranking is 16th. Of the top 10 plants for
quality, GM has eight of the top 10 and four of the top five.
And then there's the myth of the happy, teamwork-oriented worker who labors in a unionless paradise surrounded by
caring Japanese employers who only have his or her best interest at heart.
Fact: Toyota workers work for less money and are five times more likely than a GM worker to sustain an on-the-job
injury and 10 times more likely to be injured seriously enough to lose work days.
Toyota likes to propagate the myth of their commitment to the environment as evidenced by the standard set by the
Prius. What you don't hear about are the scores of Prius owners who are extremely unhappy with the performance and
mileage of their Prius. Ads claim 60 mpg - the reality is that many Prius owners get about half that mileage -
about 36 mpg. GM has five models that get similar mileage to the Prius and carry no price premium like the Prius -
but you never read about that.
If GM had a vehicle that advertised 60 mpg but actually delivered 36 mpg, you can bet that it would be front page
news, plus a nice segment on 60 Minutes.
But I digress. My point is that there is an incredibly unfair double standard in the media these days.
Inexplicably, U.S. bashing has become the fashionable thing to do. There's no better example than the constant warm
fuzzy stories churned out regularly about Toyota's legendary teamwork, safety and quality. And yet, the facts
simply don't bear this out. The fact is that Toyota gets a free ride from our lazy and complicit media.
But it's time to separate fact from fiction. Toyota is, and has been, waging a very successful PR war with way too
much assistance from our media. This results in a skewed viewpoint that dramatically affects how buyers perceive a
new car purchase.
For instance, how many of you know that Chevrolet was the best selling passenger car brand in the U.S. last year?
How many of you know that for three years in a row, Cadillac has sold more luxury cars than anyone else - including
Lexus and BMW?
How many of you are aware that, according to J.D. Power, GM was the number one multi-line manufacturer in Sales
Satisfaction last year? Where was Toyota (including Lexus)? Seventh place.
GM was ranked second in the critical Customer Service Satisfaction index in multi-line manufacturers last year.
Where was Toyota? Fifth place.
GM's lowest quality-rated vehicle is the Pontiac Vibe, assembled in California by - you guessed it - Toyota.
While Toyota is wrapping itself in the American flag with paid advertisements and help from our incompetent media,
GM, Ford and Chrysler manufactured over 75 percent of all vehicles built in the U.S. last year. And their average
domestic content is 82 percent. Toyota's is 40 percent (Lexus is 3 percent).
Every 100 GM, Ford or Chrysler vehicles produced in the U.S. supports the livelihood of 23 full-time workers.
Conversely, every point share gained by Toyota represents 18,000 lost American jobs and countless profit dollars
that are shipped overseas to Japan.
I am not suggesting that GM, Ford or Chrysler needs your charity, but I am suggesting that you should know the
facts before you buy.
In the book "Ghost Soldiers," the author recounts the story of the Bataan Death March. When the Americans arrived
at their destination with over half of them dead due to unspeakable cruelties from their captors, the camp
commander stood on a box and shouted, "You Americans are the enemy, you will always be the enemy, one hundred years
from now we will still be enemies."
What has changed since then?
Think about that the next time you go to buy a Toyota.
Re: FBodFather follow up.... great article...
Thats a whole lot of hate right there.
I did not know that the Vibe was the worst car...thats pretty funny.
Anyway, good article. Should put things in perspective a bit. The dream land of Toyota really needs to stop, because now Huyndai is doing it.
I did not know that the Vibe was the worst car...thats pretty funny.
Anyway, good article. Should put things in perspective a bit. The dream land of Toyota really needs to stop, because now Huyndai is doing it.
Re: FBodFather follow up.... great article...
Awesome stuff across the board.
I found this nugget pretty damn telling!
:
Out of curiosity...... what kind of quality ratings does the Matrix get? Or do we have another Prizm/Corolla situation on our hands where the Prizm got such a bad rating, yet Corolla ranked high because owner didn't want to complain about their Toyotas?
I found this nugget pretty damn telling!
:
GM's lowest quality-rated vehicle is the Pontiac Vibe, assembled in California by - you guessed it - Toyota.
Out of curiosity...... what kind of quality ratings does the Matrix get? Or do we have another Prizm/Corolla situation on our hands where the Prizm got such a bad rating, yet Corolla ranked high because owner didn't want to complain about their Toyotas?
Re: FBodFather follow up.... great article...
It's articles like this that make me have more faith in GM (not just the 5th gen) than any manner of hints or coded messages saying that they've got all these great vehicles coming. I think the only problem right now is GM needs to put this information out there to the buying public. We on this website, or even if you counted everyone from all the enthusiast websites combined, don't amount to a hill of beans. It's the casual consumer that needs this info.
Re: FBodFather follow up.... great article...
Ads claim 60 mpg - the reality is that many Prius owners get about half that mileage -
about 36 mpg. GM has five models that get similar mileage to the Prius and carry no price premium like the Prius -
but you never read about that.
about 36 mpg. GM has five models that get similar mileage to the Prius and carry no price premium like the Prius -
but you never read about that.
Re: FBodFather follow up.... great article...
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
I don't know of ANYBODY getting that low of milage in a Prius. I know of multiple people on greenhybrid.com getting 55+ LMPG (lifetime MPG) in their Prius II's. I know Toyota claims 60 MPG so everyone in a Prius should get that right? Well don't late model Z28's claim 28 or 29 MPG...Who's Z28 is getting 29 LMPG?
Prius claims the high MPG figure both highway and city...
From Toyota.com: Mileage Estimates (mpg city/highway/combined) [60/51/55]
FWIW, I can average around 27MPG highway if I cruise in 6th gear in the GTO, and it is heavier than a Z28... I realized that 28MPG highway in my 99 Z28 too....
Re: FBodFather follow up.... great article...
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
I don't know of ANYBODY getting that low of milage in a Prius. I know of multiple people on greenhybrid.com getting 55+ LMPG (lifetime MPG) in their Prius II's. I know Toyota claims 60 MPG so everyone in a Prius should get that right? Well don't late model Z28's claim 28 or 29 MPG...Who's Z28 is getting 29 LMPG?
Re: FBodFather follow up.... great article...
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
Out of curiosity...... what kind of quality ratings does the Matrix get? Or do we have another Prizm/Corolla situation on our hands where the Prizm got such a bad rating, yet Corolla ranked high because owner didn't want to complain about their Toyotas? 

The Matrix is built in Canada. NUMMI now builds the Vibe and the Toyota Tacoma pickup.
Strangely enough, I have both a Prizm (a 96) and a Vibe (05) and they're both very nice. I've not had any problems with either. My parents actually bought the Prizm new from the Buick/Chevy/Geo dealership my dad was a salesman at and other than oil changes and a set of tires, it's been flawless. Its had no major repairs either when they owned it or when I bought it from them 2 years ago (my mom has a bad hip and the Prizm sits too low, so they got a Malibu Maxx). The Prizm LSi interior is actually a little nicer than the Vibe interior as far as quality of materials - but it stickered at almost 18 grand when they bought it in fall of 95 about the same as a new Vibe now! But I've got no complaints about the Vibe, either. No problems so far in the first 9 months of ownership. I've always been happy with GM quality, though, regardless. My previous Monte Carlo was a high quality, reliable car as was my Wife's 2000 Malibu and my 2000 Cavalier Z24 and 1997 Cavalier LS Convertible before that.
Re: FBodFather follow up.... great article...
Originally Posted by Eric77TA
Actually, if I recall correctly the Prizm got BETTER quality ratings than the Corolla when they were both being built at NUMMI.
Hmmm... I'm pretty sure it was the other way around. Maybe I am thinking of one specific engine problem, rather than overall quality rating........
Branden posted it way back when, and it's one of my favorite stories for import vs domestic brand name quality perception...
Maybe Branden can post the story again if he sees this...
Re: FBodFather follow up.... great article...
It would be a better article without the editorial remarks and anti-Japanese overtones. A simple demonstration of the facts would get the attention of those on the other side of the fence. With the "enemies for life" rhetoric, you lose some of that audience. That's why it's not a major publication's article (also lacks sources in some places).
Re: FBodFather follow up.... great article...
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
Hmmm... I'm pretty sure it was the other way around. Maybe I am thinking of one specific engine problem, rather than overall quality rating........
Branden posted it way back when, and it's one of my favorite stories for import vs domestic brand name quality perception...
Maybe Branden can post the story again if he sees this...
Branden posted it way back when, and it's one of my favorite stories for import vs domestic brand name quality perception...
Maybe Branden can post the story again if he sees this...
Originally Posted by RoMaD
It's articles like this that make me have more faith in GM (not just the 5th gen) than any manner of hints or coded messages saying that they've got all these great vehicles coming. I think the only problem right now is GM needs to put this information out there to the buying public. We on this website, or even if you counted everyone from all the enthusiast websites combined, don't amount to a hill of beans. It's the casual consumer that needs this info.
Just last night I was talking with 2 older guys I know. One's a Ford guy the other mopar. The mopar guy says GM will be out of business in 8 months!
I mean I'm shakin' just typin' it!
How can ppl buy into this crap? I might be a GM guy, but I can't say that I would like to see ANY of the big American Companies go under!
Yeah, we need plenty more articles like this, and they definately do need to reach the casual consumer! Great article! Is Anyone's Z/28 still stock? Or a better question might be, can anyone drive it in a way that would make a fair mpg check? Maybe someone with a stock Z can check their mpg and post it! I could swear I heard the prius was advertised at 70 something mpg originally! Anyway I'm not buying one regardless.
Last edited by SCNGENNFTHGEN; Jun 15, 2005 at 05:08 PM.



too bad it isn't in USAtoday or the NY times
you should send it to businessweek/newsweek/etc along with the previous one