The kind of attitude in the last 2 posts is exactly the kind of attitude that's hurting the company. "You don't like it? Leave and never come back!"

Already left. I was looking for a new car and the general had nothing to offer me. Never come back? Well, things keep like they are and looks like it won't be too tough. I'd love to see GM making fun cars. I'm a GM/domestic fan, otherwise I just wouldn't care what and I'd lump them in with Hyundai and Kia as crappy cars that I'd never buy. But I know GM has something better in them, and it's ****ty to see such potential wasted.

That goes against the point it seems RP was trying to make with GM having so many brands they have to design for and what a burden it is on the company. In reality, Ford has a lot more than Lincoln/Mercury (Mazda, Volvo, Jag, Aston) but still seems to move much more swiftly in the market. *shrug* I was just taking what RP said at face value, and commenting that it seems like the brands are more of a problem than a help, per what he said.

God forbid we want the car company we're fans of to make cars we want to buy! The manual transmission is alive and well. Go to any non-GM dealer's lots and look at their compact cars. You'll find plenty of manual transmission cars. Young people these days like having a manual transmission, it makes even a boring and slow car feel fun to drive and sporty. "Sport Shift" automatics don't offer the same feeling. Pressing a button and then waiting a few moments while the transmission decides to shift does not a fun time make. And that isn't a jab at GM, they suck in all brands of cars. You're right, I haven't driven a C6, a CTS-V, or a GTO. Not all of us are looking to drop $30-50k on a car, or can afford to. The Redline is too pricey for what it is. Pricewise, it competes with the SRT-4. Not performance wise. Never even drove one because it was too pricey for what it was. But it is absolutely a good step, and a trend I hope GM continues to follow with the Cobalt. The Grand Prix CompG? I guess it's nice, if you're a fan of the Grand Prix. I never have been, myself. And in the price range, there are a lot better values if I want something sporty. Intrepid, Accord V6, Legacy GT and Mazda 6 all come in within $2k above or below the GP GT2 (based off of edmunds TMV) and all sport a good chunk more HP. The Mazda 6 is the lowest with 20 more hp, every other car has at least 40 more hp. All of the imports have a manual transmission option, as well. Compare the GTP and the Pontiac takes the performance edge slightly over the others, and comes in comparable to the higher priced cars in the TMV. And the only way the GP is competitive at all is through rebates, which it seems like GM is going to be shackled with forever. The G6 is supposed to replace the Grand Prix or the Grand Am? It seems like another really good step.

A lot of us are just frustrated, since in a lot of people's opinions, GM has really only had the F-Body and the 'vette going for it recently, and the one we can afford was canned. So while a lot of us are going out and buying new cars, it's frustrating to look over to the GM lot, get bored, and walk over to TOYOTA of all places and find a handful of sporty looking, fun to drive cars. "I promise it'll get better!" doesn't put a better car in my driveway.

 

GM Loyalty? I've bought nothing but GM since my first new car in 1978 ...I've bought or leased new GM's in 96, 98, 99 & 01, and there are 5 GM's on the driveway now. I also own GM stock. RP knows I'd rather push a Chevy than drive a Ford ...

Fuel economy? Big Als Z ...what vehicle are you referring to that gets 25 - 28 MPG? My '02 Envoy is averaging 14.7 MPG, My former '96 Jimmy averaged 18.6 MPG, my '99 Camaro is averaging 20.4 MPG.

Perhaps being from the Canadian prairie skews my perspective but I honestly believe there are way too may holes in the GM product line-up, and saying it's "in the pipe" will be little consolation in May when the Envoy lease is up.

Sorry about rant, I'll shut up now!

 

Survey says..... bing bing bing bing bing.... AGREED!

 

Lets see... GM 2.0... Sounds good to me.

 

Wanna play who has more here?

Lets see here...

2004 Avalanche
2000 Jimmy
2000 Sierra
1996 Yukon
1993 Beretta GTZ
1990 Camaro IROC-Z
1987 Camaro IROC-Z
1979 Corvette

Notice the trend in the years... hmmm... wonder why that is.

We are tired of "waiting to the future" because we've been dissappointed for so long, we're sick of it. As loyal consumers, we're tired of waiting. GM hasn't offered much of anything in say the past 4-5 years that appeals to anyone buy rental car companies. The Cavalier has needed to die since 2000, the Camaro we knew was coming to and end... You want us to leave because we're sick of waiting? That mentality is really irritating in today's market. GM can't afford such a mentaility. If GM and the others in the BIG 3 had done their jobs, you wouldn't see the hundreds of imports running around! Thats their fault. Not mine. I'm sticking with the dying dog and you're telling me, that its my fault for being upset...

 

People people get it through your dang think heads, The Camaro Died because NO ONE was buying them. plus several other reasons. The car was being made & only being bought by a hand full of people & those people only bought one car in the whole time the current gen was in production (what 9yrs?)

Why would a company cont. to make & sell a product that is not being sold & they are always losing money on it? If Gm kept on that track then they would go belly up. By the sounds of it you guys have no Idea about any type of business.


What you guys cant wait 2 more years or even 3 more years isnt good enough for you? Not only was the 4th gen Camaros not selling but they had safety issues with the car, & the car they were looking at replacing the 4th gen with was not up to safety standards either. So they killed the program & could be looking at another car that will not only comply with Safety standards but make everyone happy.Or do you want to buy a car that is going to not meet those Safety standard & the first time you get in a wreck you or someone love is killed?
As I said you guys sound worse then my two kids & my husband when they dont get their way.






Another question how many of you guys bitching about not having the camaro out there can really afford to by a brand new one if they were currently in production? 2? 5 people in this thread?

Dante93GTZ, you are tired of waiting for the new Camaro to come out right? well where is your 4th gen?

I currently have: (when I said every car/truck I currently own has a bowtie on it I dont mean it was made by GM but it is a Chevy brand)
67 C-10 pick up (step side short box)
82 indy pace car Camaro
87 Iroc-z 5.7l
90 Vette
95 Z/28
99 Silverado.
we just got rid of 2 rigs for my new truck.
96 s-10 pick up
& a 00 Grand prix GTP Daytona pace car

How many of those companys of pocket rockets are own by American companies?

 

Lets get one thing straight here. I, and I'm sure many share my feelings, don't truly CARE if a 5thgen comes out in the near future. That's _NOT_ what we are asking for NOW. For me, I don't care if it takes 10 years to bring back a 5thgen, its not important to me. When it happens, it happens. What IS important is that since the Camaro's demise, lets say 2-3 years now, we've been asking for SOMETHING... and given nothing. Are we just supposed to sit and wait for GM to GIVE us something? No. If we did, then we'd get something like the styling/excitement abortions that are offered to us currently by the good General. We as consumers HAVE to be voiced in our fight to get what we want. We've sat quiet for too long and we want/need to be heard.

GM needs to care about the enthousiasts, because the enthousiasts still buy the "driver" cars for spouses, kids, family and recommend them to friends. I'm sorry, but aside from the trucks, GM (CHEVY) has NOTHING to offer anyone. Even though I love GM, I don't consider them the most dependable things on the road. They aren't the best on the road. They are just something I connect with. I can't say that these days.

If we don't speak up and get GM moving, who will?

 

Then what do you want?
a new Sporty car? Thats the GTO,Cobolt, G6
a wagon type car? Thats the Maxx
econo car? thats the Aveo
Sports truck? SSR & SS
SUV? Trailblazer
Truck? Silverado
Sports car? Vette
Sporty Sudan? Grand prix, Montie,

Should I go on?

Comeon come out & tell me what you want? Gm is currently making almost every car/truck/suv out there to make everyone happy. The only car they are not currently making is the Camaro.

 

Pony cars are not FWD.

Lets see something like the new Mazda hatch.

I hear the Civic is an econo box too. Hell, Kia makes a better car than the Aveo.

Agreed. Their trucks are great.

$50,000 is not affordable for a large percentage.

Doesn't cut it.

 

GM is doing an alright job at throwing an entry into most markets. Now they have to work on making those offers attractive to buyers.

 

Mazda which is own by FORD

Kia which is owned in a joint ventrure with Chrysler.

So if Gm hung its self with a new rope you wouldnt be happy? Heck if GM hung its self with an old rope you wouldnt be happy.

 

stirred the pot some more, didn't I?

OK.....what exactly do any of you propose we do with the Divisions we have?

Drop a few? Remember the outcry when Oldsmobile was dropped? No one at GM was happy that Oldsmobile was dropped....but business is business. When you are losing a staggering amount of money within a division, you take action.

That said, it isn't as easy as saying "Welp...OK, we're done...we're closing down Brand X........" For one thing, what do you do with the dealers with whom you have contracts? What do you do with those facilities that the dealers, in many cases, have leased? What do you do with the people who designed and built the cars? There are about 80 additional questions I should be asking you in order for you to understand the magnitude....but the bottom line is your hair would fall out if I told you how much it would cost to completely eliminate a division. Seriously.

Look...all I'm saying is that this forum has suddenly seemed to become "beat the hell outta GM verbally...." And there are a lot of good points brought up. On the other hand, there are many points that are simply untrue, not thought out, or just plain misguided.

Is GM perfect? No,

I know we're going to lose a lot of people between now and two-three-four years from now....that's the nature of the business. Does that make me happy? For those who know me or anyone at GM, you know the answer. It upsets us very very much.

As I said.....perhaps a few of us can talk in Bowling Green....or at Carlisle....or at the gathering.

This has become a very very complicated business in the new world order. Let me also say this: The company that gets their products right will stay in business. Those that don't won't be here in a few years.

It does frighten me at what is at stake in business today. We all read about the "legacy carriers" within the airline business.......that can be applied to just about any business today from hardware to appliances to cars to what-have-you.

 

Scott you have Email.

LOL you need to start cleaning out your PM box in here more offten.

 

GM is the only company offering products that are attractive.