Nothing personal, but do you not see the ludicrousy in your post? You're feelings towards SVT/Ford's so twisted, that you'll go as far as to misinterpret and twist around their words to your liking. So he brings up the hp to weight ratio, and you assume he (director of SVT who's experience and knowledge with cars and vehicle dynamics “probably” goes beyond that of almost all here) doesn't know of this simple concept. He points out how the hp race has escalated greatly and how the ratings will probably plateau (probably due to increased regulations), and you assume he meant that Ford powertrain has reached their limit and aren't capable of competing.

Colleti isn't a god, or some genius but he 1) seems to know his s*it when it comes to cars (he must be or else he wouldn't be heading SVT) and 2) He is not afraid of competition, and seems to be quite a competitive man himself (personal grudge matches with PVO director, etc... are a classic examples).

The way i see it, i agree with him on both accounts. Most cars (especially the cheaper ones) improve performance by simply bumping up hp to balance off the increase in weight. Camaro's, Mustangs, etc.... have only gotten heavier throughout the last 2 decades. While hp has gone up, so has weight. So it seems this simple concept has eluded both Ford and GM since both the camaro and mustang haven't gotten any lighter. As far as hp increase, the pace will slow down. It'll have to. Next year, Ford alone will have two vehicles with 500+hp, probably three vehicles if the Cobra or Cobra-R gets the GT's blown 5.4 as well. Same with Dodge. We're already knocking on 600hp. Obviously, the pace will slow down, because we are near the limit as far as streetability, ideal fuel economy, etc.... Either the industry will slow down the pace, or regulations will.

 

Back to the topic at hand:

My interpretation of what he is saying is that they're going to focus more on weight. Up to this point to go faster everyone has just kept adding HP (and weight). As fast as the 4th gens were, they were still unforgivably fat, they shouldn't have gone over 3200lbs.

I am actually surprised at how high the HP #s have gone, before long either the industry or outside sources will impose discipline. I'd rather that GM, DCX and Ford do that, giving them the ability to leave the door open for us to take the cars farther. If discipline is imposed by regulation it would probably MUCH harder for enthusiasts(sp?) to make more Hp.

Anyway, here's hoping HP stays where its at (not regulated down) and our cars go on the Atkins plan !!

 

ill betcha automakers are already getting heat from gov't agencies/ private groups.....and are worried about lawsuits

this is a huge busniess- if a company knows there is a market to support theier cars to- they will produce them

- I sure they could care less if they are 'indangering' people on public roads- its all about the $$


damn lawyers!/crazy moms against ______ physco groups!

 

I think another thing to consider is the price of these cars. You're not going to get many people south of the age of 40 buying any of the above 400+ hp cars, and then the people who do have the money to buy them can generally be considered responsible or they probably wouldnt have that much extra money to toss around. Granted there are exceptions to the rule (well off parents, etc) but thats why I dont think there has been much of a public out cry thus far. If this starts showing up in sub $30,000 cars then we'll start to have problems.

 

Here the funny thing about this thread. Colleti, who just figured out hp/weight and is afraid of a hp war, made the following:

The '03 Cobra which outruns the lightweight C5 hardtop.
The Lightning which will smoke any GM truck.
The Boss Mustang to go up against Jon Moss's BBC 572 Camaro and destroyed it in head to head at the track.

Ford is in the middle of giving GM a major whupping in the performance war and they're going to give up? And Colleti's dishing out this education using a motor designed for FWD.

Now what's poor ol Colleti gonna do when he gets the new 6.2 OHC motor to work with?

 

I think thats a pretty good idea to start worrying about weight now instead of hp for awhile. 500-600hp is plenty, but it also stinks when that power is towing around a mid-3000lb vehicle. Thats another reason I admire the Corvette team. They shaved pounds off of the C5 coupe for the Z06 model and experimented with a production carbon fiber hood on the '04 Commemorative Edition Z06. Then they go along and make the C6 lighter. Now I'm sure we'll see an even lighter C6 Z06 and possibly a leader in the power/weight ratio class with the rumored "Blue Devil" Corvette. A close to 600hp car with all carbon fiber body panels, oh yeah

So while I applaud SVT and Colleti for wanting to do this, it seems as if the Corvette team has already been embarking down this path for a few years now. Not slamming SVT here, just stating a point that they're not the first of the big 3 to look into weight savings on their performance cars.

 

Nope, it sure doesn't. Close but not close enough.

 

Well thought out and essentially correct. The big bad wolf for the folks that are anti "buy what you want" are the SUV's and light duty trucks. High performance cars are off their radar other than them being lumped in that we all shoud be driving something solar powered or, better still, riding in solar powered public transportation...

The serious legislation, at present, is aimed at street racing or displays of speed on highways. Many states have made it clear they will stamp it out, unfortunately they have gone with vague definitions of what constitutes "racing".

Many insurance companies have opted to go a different route than trying to price insuring hi-perf vehicle out of reach. < Perhaps because the actuarial info makes it difficult as aftermarket hopped up imports are an issue rather than showroom stormers >

Some companies are inserting language into policies that not only exclude track incidents as being racing, but many exclude coverage if an incident happens as a result of "competition" on a public highway. IOW, some are essentially "turning off" the insurance for a car or truck that's driving fast with another car driving fast in the immediate vicinity. This has happened without much noise at all...probably because folks don't read their policy until it's a bit late...

 

Yup it sure does.

12.9-second quarter-mile at 111 mph from C&D. None of the Big3 car rags ever ran a vette that fast. Not to mention many owners running 12.5-12.7 @ ~113 bone stock. No vette owner is stupid enough to even claim running that fast stock.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=2

This is at least the third time I've posted this same stuff. I know I'll have to do it again in a few months.

 

It's nice that you can quote the fastest time posted by a mag for the Cobra. I remember a comparison between a Cobra and a base Vette and guess who was faster? Yes, the Corvette, not by much but it was faster. I have been to the track many times and have yet to see a STOCK 03'+ Cobra break out of the 13's or get higher than 110 mph. This can go back and forth, but just because you claim Cobra's run mid 12's does not make it so.

By the way, I have seen stock Vettes go that fast. Remember, a 97' C5 is not even close to an 04' C5 at the track.

 

So a Cobra runs faster in one mag than another. Which one do you take? Why of course the slower. It couldn't have anything to do with the driver or track conditions. Isn't obvious the best run minimizes driver error or bad conditions and best shows what the car is capable of?

That's why I challenge you or anyone to find a vette run faster than 12.9@111 in any big car rag at any time.

So YOU havn't seen a stock Cobra break into the 12s or over 110, but you've seen STOCK vettes do it.... RIGHT.

Well I know a fella down here in Htown who bought an '03 this spring and took it down to the track and ran a 12.3@116 bone stock down to the paper filter.

 

Don't want a pissing contest, but no it doesn't. You stated that the Cobra outperformed the lightweight C5 HARDTOP. From 2001 on that would be a Z06.

I'm not trying to state that a present gen Cobra isn't a good performing and easy/cheap to mod drag car. Let's avoid stating the obvious, and avoid making Coletti's mistake.

Speaking from a off the showroom floor context, the Cobra's come up short on the strip, and very short on a roadcourse.

As an attempt to stay on topic...My earlier take on Coletti's quote made it clear that he probably would have approached his statement differently had he givin it more thought. Coletti is brash, but not stupid.

Someone previously alluded that Coletti knows more about vehicles than anyone on this site... thing is you never know what folks on this site know or do for a living unless they tell you.

Johm Coletti threw down the gauntlet not that long ago. Made quite a big deal out of it as I recall... His intent was to hand a big can of whoopass to GM and DCX in particular. Particularly in truck offerings. The thing is, at the present, the SVT Ford truck comes up short against the Dodge... not a guess or subjective opinion...just the facts.

His statement in Autonews is an admission of this and he trys to make the best of it while justifying it too. Sometimes when you backpedal you do "damage control". Damage control statements are usually awkward in context. This is an example, IMO, of such a deal.

On another note, a good pal of mine just did a cross country in the '05 GTO. I think the LS2 will provide big smiles all around for fans.

 

exactly.

 

Is GM High Tech performance a big enough magazine for you? Probably not, but they got a Vette to run 12.66. IIRC that was a FRC powered by the LS1, but I could be wrong there.

 

At the risk of being accused of "magazine racing".....the same folks that test for GMHTP also test for MM&FF. Those folks got a 12.4x out of stock 03 Cobra. I don't remember the issue. I have them all, so if someone has a REALLY hard time with that, I'll go dig it up and scan it.

I'd like to say once again that I really don't like magazine racing.

Personally, I think they're pretty damn close, and of course, the Z06 is significantly quicker.

I also realize we're talking straight-line only.