Don't expect Horsepower to go much farther than today (plus new Lightning info)
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Don't expect Horsepower to go much farther than today (plus new Lightning info)
Ford to lighten, tighten upcoming version of Lightning pickup By RICHARD TRUETT | Automotive News
DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. has no intention of letting the new 500-hp Dodge SRT-10 keep the title of world's fastest truck.
But John Coletti, director of Ford's Special Vehicle Team, acknowledges that automakers have hit a wall on how much horsepower they can give a vehicle. So the automaker will make the next-generation Ford F-150 Lightning pickup go faster by removing weight and improving handling.
"In the next generation, we've got to worry about efficiency, weight and better control," he says. "You can get great power-to-weight ratio without a fountain of horsepower."
Until the Ram SRT-10 pickup debuted this year, the Lightning had been the unchallenged leader in performance trucks for more than a decade.
But in February, the SRT-10 clocked a record speed of 154.587 mph.
Ford SVT engineers have experience in reducing weight with the 2002 Mustang Cobra R, a version for performance enthusiasts.
Strong, lightweight materials such as carbon fiber, magnesium, aluminum, ceramics and plastics can substitute for steel parts without major re-engineering.
Coletti says lighter parts and better-handling suspension systems might not come simultaneously.
"You'll start seeing it in incremental steps," he says. "Now that we have the engines where we want them, the question is what do you do with the rest of the car? Clearly you have to start looking at the weight aspect of it. If I could take 300 or 400 pounds out of the car, I wouldn't have to add any more horsepower. It would just be an incredibly faster, better handling, better braking car. All the attributes would improve."
Coletti believes automakers risk attracting attention from government regulators and the insurance industry by constantly increasing horsepower in their performance-oriented vehicles.
In the last two years, the number of vehicles with engines producing 400 hp to 500 hp and more has grown quickly.
"The focus now has to be better efficiency and weight reduction," Coletti says.
In the heyday of the American muscle car in the late 1960s, only a small number of limited-production vehicles made more than 400 hp.
The ratings of most Pontiac GTOs, Ford Mustangs, Dodge Chargers and Chevrolet Corvettes were in the 300-hp to 375-hp range.
Today, there are at least 14 cars and trucks with at least 400 hp.
Says Coletti: "We're hitting the limit."
DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. has no intention of letting the new 500-hp Dodge SRT-10 keep the title of world's fastest truck.
But John Coletti, director of Ford's Special Vehicle Team, acknowledges that automakers have hit a wall on how much horsepower they can give a vehicle. So the automaker will make the next-generation Ford F-150 Lightning pickup go faster by removing weight and improving handling.
"In the next generation, we've got to worry about efficiency, weight and better control," he says. "You can get great power-to-weight ratio without a fountain of horsepower."
Until the Ram SRT-10 pickup debuted this year, the Lightning had been the unchallenged leader in performance trucks for more than a decade.
But in February, the SRT-10 clocked a record speed of 154.587 mph.
Ford SVT engineers have experience in reducing weight with the 2002 Mustang Cobra R, a version for performance enthusiasts.
Strong, lightweight materials such as carbon fiber, magnesium, aluminum, ceramics and plastics can substitute for steel parts without major re-engineering.
Coletti says lighter parts and better-handling suspension systems might not come simultaneously.
"You'll start seeing it in incremental steps," he says. "Now that we have the engines where we want them, the question is what do you do with the rest of the car? Clearly you have to start looking at the weight aspect of it. If I could take 300 or 400 pounds out of the car, I wouldn't have to add any more horsepower. It would just be an incredibly faster, better handling, better braking car. All the attributes would improve."
Coletti believes automakers risk attracting attention from government regulators and the insurance industry by constantly increasing horsepower in their performance-oriented vehicles.
In the last two years, the number of vehicles with engines producing 400 hp to 500 hp and more has grown quickly.
"The focus now has to be better efficiency and weight reduction," Coletti says.
In the heyday of the American muscle car in the late 1960s, only a small number of limited-production vehicles made more than 400 hp.
The ratings of most Pontiac GTOs, Ford Mustangs, Dodge Chargers and Chevrolet Corvettes were in the 300-hp to 375-hp range.
Today, there are at least 14 cars and trucks with at least 400 hp.
Says Coletti: "We're hitting the limit."
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Re: Don't expect Horsepower to go much farther than today (plus new Lightning info)
Originally posted by guionM
Ford SVT engineers have experience in reducing weight with the 2002 Mustang Cobra R,
Ford SVT engineers have experience in reducing weight with the 2002 Mustang Cobra R,
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From: Lilburn, GA, USA
Is this a cross-the-board thing or just Ford? It seems that they are saying that the current powerplants that they(Ford) have can not make much more reliable HP and still comply to all regulations.
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I believe it when I see it. With the Camaro coming back and talk of RWD sedans coming from GM, I don't see Ford staying where they are for long. These are performance cars, not high quantity cars. If you come in last in hp, you don't sell cars. People won't buy a Cobra when you could possibly have a Camaro for the same price and have more power.
Edit: Also, I don't every see SVT, John Coletti, steping down to Chrysler and their SRT program. Apparently the two leaders of those camps are good friends and have personal grudges. So, if a Charger is faster then a Cobra or a Lighning is faster then the SRT-10 Ram, I don't see it being that way for long.
Edit: Also, I don't every see SVT, John Coletti, steping down to Chrysler and their SRT program. Apparently the two leaders of those camps are good friends and have personal grudges. So, if a Charger is faster then a Cobra or a Lighning is faster then the SRT-10 Ram, I don't see it being that way for long.
Last edited by mastrdrver; Jun 30, 2004 at 08:38 PM.
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I doubt it was the intent, but the quote makes Ford sound pretty awkward.
Maybe they have hit a wall with THEIR engines.
Coletti just "discovered" power to weight? That's just too funny.
This is a gem!:
"You'll start seeing it in incremental steps," he says. "Now that we have the engines where we want them, the question is what do you do with the rest of the car? Clearly you have to start looking at the weight aspect of it. If I could take 300 or 400 pounds out of the car, I wouldn't have to add any more horsepower. It would just be an incredibly faster, better handling, better braking car. All the attributes would improve."
Gotta admit, he's got a grasp of the obvious. Yeah, do it incrementally...
Wonder which will be first.. the attempt to make the SVT stuff handle or make it less portly?
Maybe before the new truck and Mustang platforms were done might have been a more appropriate time to make this "discovery".
Maybe they have hit a wall with THEIR engines.
Coletti just "discovered" power to weight? That's just too funny.
This is a gem!:
"You'll start seeing it in incremental steps," he says. "Now that we have the engines where we want them, the question is what do you do with the rest of the car? Clearly you have to start looking at the weight aspect of it. If I could take 300 or 400 pounds out of the car, I wouldn't have to add any more horsepower. It would just be an incredibly faster, better handling, better braking car. All the attributes would improve."
Gotta admit, he's got a grasp of the obvious. Yeah, do it incrementally...
Wonder which will be first.. the attempt to make the SVT stuff handle or make it less portly?Maybe before the new truck and Mustang platforms were done might have been a more appropriate time to make this "discovery".
Last edited by 1fastdog; Jun 30, 2004 at 11:45 PM.
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Originally posted by 1fastdog
Coletti just "discovered" power to weight? That's just too funny.
Coletti just "discovered" power to weight? That's just too funny.
must be a die hard racer then huh? "wait...you can make a car faster by taking weight off the car? Why didnt we think of this before?"
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From: FL/MI
Originally posted by Big Als Z
yeah.. must be a die hard racer then huh?
"wait...you can make a car faster by taking weight off the car? Why didnt we think of this before?"
yeah..
must be a die hard racer then huh? "wait...you can make a car faster by taking weight off the car? Why didnt we think of this before?"
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From: Jersey Shore
Originally posted by 1fastdog
Glad I'm not the only one that finds this funny in a big, big way.
Glad I'm not the only one that finds this funny in a big, big way.
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Well, regardless of what some people here want to read into Coletti's statements, SVT's (Ford) engines haven't hit any limitations. Even the 03/04 Cobras handle 600 HP without problems with the factory internals. The GT is going to make an advertised 550 HP. The Lightnings can handle well over 450 HP. Now, as someone mentioned, can they meet emissions? I think so. Even these 600 HP Cobras are meeting emissions tests here in Houston and other cities where they use probes to test your exhaust gases.
What I really think Coletti is saying is this: Before the government shuts us down, let's change our game plan. It's easy to make HP and today it's easy to do it reliably, but it's much harder to lose the weight. That's why many manufacturers (GM included) just add HP. Some of you laugh and call him a fool, but I don't see you in his position and making the products he does. Quite frankly you're just an ignorant ***. Now, that being said, have a nice day!
What I really think Coletti is saying is this: Before the government shuts us down, let's change our game plan. It's easy to make HP and today it's easy to do it reliably, but it's much harder to lose the weight. That's why many manufacturers (GM included) just add HP. Some of you laugh and call him a fool, but I don't see you in his position and making the products he does. Quite frankly you're just an ignorant ***. Now, that being said, have a nice day!
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Originally posted by PaperTarget
Quite frankly you're just an ignorant ***. Now, that being said, have a nice day!
Quite frankly you're just an ignorant ***. Now, that being said, have a nice day!
Want to argue things? Fine. But don't start name calling.
This place it too valubale to turn into something like that. Heck, you can say he is "ignorant" if you feel that is the case, but you really don't need to make a peronal attack with the "***" tacked on.FWIW, my take on Colletti's statement is that perhaps they are taking a view of "When is enough, enough?" Sure, they coudl MAKE more horsepower, but at what point to the manufacturers draw the line on what should actually be on public roads?
Not saying I agree with that stance, but that is kind of the way I read it.
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From: Nashville, TN
"Coletti believes automakers risk attracting attention from government regulators and the insurance industry by constantly increasing horsepower in their performance-oriented vehicles. "
I could not agree with Coletti more here.
its not a technological barrier, its a practical barrier. When you can go buy a 400hp car for $35K it begs the question, are enough fools going to kill themselves in these cars that legislators somewhere will introduce bills to limit hp? At some point it will happen, I'd rather the automakers call a truce at the currently incredible levels than risk crusing the second golden age of horsepower.
I am aware you can kill yourself in any car, but 600hp vipers wrapping around telephone poles gets more buzz/press/awareness than a 150 hp Grand Am getting wrapped around a telephone pole.
I could not agree with Coletti more here.
its not a technological barrier, its a practical barrier. When you can go buy a 400hp car for $35K it begs the question, are enough fools going to kill themselves in these cars that legislators somewhere will introduce bills to limit hp? At some point it will happen, I'd rather the automakers call a truce at the currently incredible levels than risk crusing the second golden age of horsepower.
I am aware you can kill yourself in any car, but 600hp vipers wrapping around telephone poles gets more buzz/press/awareness than a 150 hp Grand Am getting wrapped around a telephone pole.
Last edited by Chris 96 WS6; Jul 1, 2004 at 09:10 AM.