I'm sure you can't get either on a Monte...probably not on any Chevy car for that matter. But if you could I would be in a Monte now. Or if a GP was 2 door...

 

The Prism was a Toyota. The average age of LeSabre and Century buyers was probably 70. All the GPs I see here in northern California are rentals -- at least the new ones.

I think GM's trying to appeal to people that they don't appeal to now, and who have negative perceptions of the current product. I think the problem is that if you, say, come out with a killer RWD Grand Prix, you might scare off the current buyers who want FWD without grabbing enough new buyers, due to association of the name Grand Prix with "cut price rental". Then there's the Oshawa name deal to consider too. I'm sure that figures into it.

GM is between the proverbial rock and hard spot.

I think the Cadillac CTS shows that with a daring design and a decent car, they can win sales in the hard-fought segments. Hopefully the G8 and other forthcoming Pontiacs will be winners too.

 

I think you're missing the biggest point, which is that GM doesn't have "so many strong brands out there". They have tons of weak brands, and a few strong ones, almost all in the truck market. Sure, Corvette is strong, but 2 seat sports cars is a niche. Camaro is strong, though it does have it's negatives too. But almost all the sedans are pitifully weak, at least in California, except for the new RWD Cadillacs.

I like the rumored strategy for Pontiac. Make it RWD, which puts it in the same category as BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus sport models, and Jaguar. Then make Honda-priced. Give them new names, bold styling, and advertize. That'll give Pontiac a shot at the 25-65 age segment in booming southern states.

Leave the FWD sedans to Chevy, Saturn, Saab, and Buick (ought to cover all the niches with lots of overlap, don't you think?). Then once Pontiac reestablishes itself as a desireable brand, they can bring back the old names gradually if it seems like it will help, using the time honored tradition of introducing as a trim package and then as a model.

 

I personally like the new naming scheme. Some of you guys need to keep in mind that for every few of you who've enjoyed some top-level trim variant of the Grand Prix, there are about a thousand guys like me whose only first-hand association with the Grand Prix was riding in some dude's vehicle back in high school that was a little sporty and a LOT plasticky.

I salute Pontiac for having the stones to start off fresh and invent the new brand that they want. Somewhere along the way a project manager must've decided that it was easier to completely remove past associations than to fight against them.

 

IMHO the Grand Prix brand went down hill a lot with the 2004 redesign and the killing off of the coupe. People loved the 1997-2002 they were great cars and sold well.

 

The average Buick buyer is 62 years old. While those cars were not our cup of tea, they did have a customer base which was very loyal to those brands. Over the next twenty years, the senior population will be expanding in large numbers. Just like us, heritage is important to most of them as well. Buick has so many great names just sitting collecting dust (Wildcat, Riveria, Grand Sport, Grand Nat'l) naming a car the same name as a store brand milk (Lucerne) is a joke.

I would not call the Grand Prix a cut price rental. The JD Power award speaks volumes about its quality. I do recall the car had heads up display a few years before the Corvette. Like others mentioned cutting the Grand Prix coupe was a mistake. The parking lights on the 04 are way too big for my tastes.

Appealing to new customers is a good thing. The bulldozer approach GM has taken with Buick and now Pontiac will only alienate many loyal customers. It is not easy to win the JD Power award, any model which makes it should be untouchable.

 

Well, the JD Power award doesn't mean very much since it will be a completely different car built in a completely different factory. I can't really recall GM advertising that they won this award either.

 

sales data should show it being a rental favorite.

 

HuJass,
I understand where you're coming from, and am not trying to discount the history of the Grand Prix. However, when you tell me the last REAL Grand Prix was built in 1987, I completely scoff at that. Indeed...a 150hp, whitewall-tired, wire-wheel-hubcap-cladded "tu-tone" '87 model is real, but a 240hp supercharged '97, or a 303hp '07 GXP isn't keeping with the car's performance roots...RIGHT...

Just because something is driven by something smaller than 8 cylinders and drives the front wheels doesn't mean it isn't keeping within the original spirit. I agree, GPs should be coupes, but still...I think the modern iterations are more of a Grand Prix than the '87 model you claim to be the last of the true ones...

 

Thats exactly what first comes into mind when I think of "Pontiac Grand Prix", and I'm a relatively good GM fan.


ALSO, it won't help that other people will confuse "Grand Prix" and "Grand Am" together.. so they'll even think of the smaller, more economy "Grand Am" cars they've sat in too.


Top it off, for these people, like me, this time period of highschool was around the 80's and 90's.. Toady, we are now around the age of 30's or so.. Some of us finally have a bit of cash, and perhaps want a nicer car. This is part of the market Ponatiac really wants. Unfortunantly, the memories up above don't mesh well with the thought of spending $30kish on a car. Which is why I think its a very good idea that Pontiac gets a great car like the Holden SS and renames it to G8. I'm not in love with the naming scheme, but its new and different, for Pontiac.

 

Well, there are many who would say the real Pontiac ceased to exist in the late '70's when they shifted over to GM corporate engines.

No doubt, your point is taken - my generation has a remarkably short memory. For that very reason, I'd say that the Grand Prix name is still relevant. Even in an age when barely any GM name carries recent equity, Grand Prix stands out as one that retains equity. The 97-03, as Jason noted, has its loyal following. Those older generation models, iffy though the 3.4 OHC engine might have been, were themselves quite attractive and successful - nothing like the instant-lemon Grand Ams and Bonnevilles. Even today's model performs reasonably well. It's no class leader, but the GT and GXP don't embarass themselves. If they weren't homely they would still sell respectably.

 

Given the choice between something with a shaky reputation and something thats completely unproven, which one do you choose?


I would choose neither... I have a feeling Im not alone.

 

The problem is that baby boomers age, they aren't switching to Buicks and Cadillacs. So the trends are that even the expanding senior population won't continue buying Buicks unless GM does something.

And the point is not what you or I might call the Grand Prix, but the association that the average mid/large sedan buyer might have. Clearly, just keeping current satisfied customers is not enough. If it were free, who knows, GM might keep the Grand Prix name, but if they have to pay money to the CAW, then why not make a clean break?

 

I suppose that would depend on the confidence of your marketing team.

How well do you think a company called "Hindenburg Airships" would do? Perhaps Ford should revisit the Pinto?

I don't think the "Grand" monikers have nearly the positive associations many of you seem to think they have to the general American public -- with the exception of the Grand National.

Infiniti and BMW have already done ground work building an association of basic alpha names with upscale luxury and class. Pontiac riding their coat-tails to enjoy the benefits is a smart move, in my opinion.

But hey, I guess we'll see who who was right in a couple of years when the sales numbers settle.

I do agree that Pontiac re-using the monikers as very limited edition trim and/or power levels could be a home run, though. Imagine a G8 "Grand National" with a badass powertrain and some nice numbered dash-plaques.

 

Jason,
I guess my point is that an '87 GP is closer to the original intent of the GP than the '88. Yes, you could outfit a GP as you said (that began in '75 with the intro of the LJ package to satisfy luxo-barge buyers), but you could also outfit it with some sportier options, too. I think the SE package combined it all in those last years. T-tops were still available. A V-8 (no matter how watered down) was available. As were bucket seats, console, auto on the floor, bigger wheels & tires, a sportier suspension.
And to GP purists, it DOES matter what's powering the GP, what wheels are getting driven, and how many doors it has.

I recall a lot of people being upset when GM dropped the MC and moved the 3 others onto the FWD W-body.
And I also recall a lot of analysts blasting the original W-body for numerous things: quality issues, styling, size, wrong execution, moving those names off the RWD architecture when they were so popular, etc.

Dav350Z,
I agree with you on the one point; that Pontiac ceased to exist when they dropped the Pontiac engines.


But I'll still stand by my reasoning: The latest GP built, that was as close to the original one, was the '87.