(opens mouth, inserts foot)

sorry Red, normally i dont slam a car until i see it in person. i wasnt too hot about the new Grand Prix or CTS until i sat in them and saw them up close and in REAL life and now im a huge fan of both cars. i think it more or less goes like this: the Camaro is gone for now and every thing Chevy releases until the Camaro returns (and hopefully it does soon with the new Mustang on the horizon) is gonna get critiqued hardcore and not given the credit the product deserves. the HHR is not aimed at enthusiasts but at an entire different market and it was created under a Lutz-controlled GM and so far GM under Lutz hasnt been too shabby. who knows maybe it could do well

 

THis seems to be an important issue on this board, and most threads end up being a debate about this. I can see this is a thorn in your side but we won't back down. BTW do you think John Colletti would go on stangnet and tell everyone to stop arguing about such an impotant issue as a name? You say you listen but it's pretty obvious you guys listen to what you want to hear. Ford is listening to what their customers want
and not telling them. At this point in time you hold all the answers. I just hope all the information you gather from these sites go through unbiased.

 

Glad to hear that.

 

Ive felt like this before also. I just hope they do listen.

 

So, was this thing just the product of some customer clinic? How many small, FWD SUV/Crossover vehicles does one company need? You have the Saturn Vue, Chevy Equinox, Buick Rendezvous, and the Pontiac Aztec.

This HHR is supposed to be a FWD vehicle to boot. Why not base the thing off the short wheelbase Trailblazer? At a time when American car companies really need exciting products, GM could have reached back into its rich heritage and pulled out a Chevy Nomad. They could put that on the SSR chassis and sell that and the SSR side by side. Why don't they customer clinic something like that?

 

I have no doubt that it will, and there are people a lot smarter than this mechanical engineer in that area making those decisions. If I was the guy making the marketing/styling decisions, you wouldn't sell car #1. Everything made would look like a 3 box Volvo... ***GASP***

BTW - I'm known to fire from the hip pretty often, more like machine gun from the hip at times... and you in no way offended me - I appreciate that type of honesty. It's the Marine in me. Sometimes, the first response from people is the most valid, the closest to their true thoughts. The response comes before the "Dale Carnagie" can kick in and the B.S. starts getting deep.



Unless it's shooting for 12 second (or lower...) quarter mile times, I'll take my cars with FWD, thanks.



First, I (as usual) think the automotive writers are flat-out wrong on the "rebates being bad" mantra. Chrysler and Ford are being put under TREMENDOUS pressure by them. That's a good thing. If Ford doesn't hit the F-150 out of the park, Coletti is going to end up being your "administrative assistant".

"Go get me some coffee Coletti, and make it FAST - if you have any clue what FAST actually means..."

Meanwhile GM is still making money. Maybe not tons of money, but GM did just write a 3 BILLION DOLLAR check to their pension/benefits fund. That's like, almost real money there.



I certainly think that the conditions are right, the pieces are falling into place. I guess we're just thirsting for the day when you can get up in front of a crowd of us and shout "WE'RE BACK!" from the mountain tops.



Whomever it was, he at least had enough sense shut his trap when I called him out. The BS stops when the throttles drop... and you gave me a machine that can wire mouths shut permanently. In effect, you didn't have to be there to close him down, you WERE there and your baby did all the talking that was necessary.



Honestly, I hope GM sells a million of them.



Even though we as a group say dumb things sometimes (OK, a lot of the time) we're still on your team, and you're the coach. I like our team, even if we as players step out of line from time to time and need to have the coach step in and correct us.

Maybe it has been said before, but having you even post here to b!tch is on of the things makes me value this board so much.

Guion's commentaries, Formula79's insights, and the opinions of countless others make it one of, if not THE best automotive forums I've been to. Certainly, the level of technical insight is higher than most.



OK.

 

Eventually, the sales might be classified as "steady" - but also slow.

My guess is that the thing will do quite well when introduced, and fade quickly into that seemingly standard niche-market volume of well under 50K/year. I can't imagine that it'll do much better unless it contains technology that revolutionalizes the mini-van market, or if it's sold at a price point that's simply irresistable.

 

Ford is also giving their customers what they want, instead of excuses. Every day I become more and more of a Mustang fan, because it's clear that they like me, and want my business now and in the future. I've been racking up thousands of dollars in points on my GM card, but honestly I don't know what for anymore. Sure, there are some great faces at GM pulling for a Camaro, but GM the company doesn't appear to care about Camaro fans - some of its strongest supporters.

 

 

That's cool with me Red. To be quite honest, I'm hoping for 2007 anyway because my 2002 Tahoe will be paid off by then.

I myself have spend the last 25 years of my life "in-love" with the Camaro. Although I prefer 67-68's, there is not one model or one body style I dislike. I love them all because they are "Camaros". I don't feel that way about any other car, even other Chevy's.

I don't want a retro car. I want a state of the art evolutionary vehicle that says "Camaro". And I'll wait patiently until that day comes.

 

I think he has a clue.....Supercharged Cobra anyone?

 

Back in 2001 when I bought my Cobra I also looked at an WS6 and an SS. The Ford had every thing I wanted except it was slower. I gave up on a little power for IRS, great seats, a sweet motor, and bigger brakes. I think they should go to a Ford dealer right now and pick up one of each model Mustang and study it. Maybe then they can see what we want. Im not saying that a Camaro should be a Mustang clone. Just incorporate some of the ideas that make the Mustang a better car.

 

Ditto.

I've got alot of GM points too

But, I'm beginning to feel that I should spend my money at a company that caters to me rather than one that dictates to me.

 

Yeah we noticed. So what are you saying? Is the CAW contract really the problem with making a new Camaro? Maybe GM should invest in a new factory in Canada.


It seems like they all got their mouths slapped after trying to give us a little hope.


Are these two little hints somehow connected?

 

(QUOTE "THis seems to be an important issue on this board, and most threads end up being a debate about this. I can see this is a thorn in your side but we won't back down. BTW do you think John Colletti would go on stangnet and tell everyone to stop arguing about such an impotant issue as a name? You say you listen but it's pretty obvious you guys listen to what you want to hear. Ford is listening to what their customers want
and not telling them. At this point in time you hold all the answers. I just hope all the information you gather from these sites go through unbiased. (END QUOTE)


yes, it is an important part of what a Camaro is and isn't .....but has anyone REALLY said anything new in the last year? Furthermore, think about it....if we call the top Camaro a Z28, we upset those who think it should be SS.....if we call it SS, we upset those who think it should be Z28..... and a poll on CamaroZ28 is not going to answer for everyone. It would seem to me that we have bigger issues to discuss at this point......hatch vs trunk, 4 vs 6 in base car, t-top vs sunroof avail....convertible...etcetcetc. On top of it, the insults start to fly.....wasted energy, in my humble opinion. I don't think that GM is telling the customer what they want.....and I make that statement because I've been with too many consumers listening to what they like, what they don't like and what their needs and wants are.....and when I say "I" I also include many other GM people. Are we making all the calls correctly....nope...wish we were......

Finally...a well reasoned and thought out post means more and holds more weight, I believe, than a hastily posted shot from the hip. Now...that sounds like I'm not listening......or we aren't listening...... but let me explain........

I have received thousands of letters and emails with passioned pleas for the return of the Camaro (no surprise there....) I'll compare two letters:

Letter #1 was from an enthusiast who wrote about what his Camaro has meant to him...in fact it went back over several cars he owned.....from his first Camaro thru the 'baby raising years' to where he bought himself another Camaro as the family was growing up.....that kind of letter gets your attention and shows the passion and the fire that a car like Camaro can inspire. He had a lot to say and had some ideas of what the next CAmaro should be and what it should include....a great letter. You can bet that letter went thru the copy machine and it landed on a lot of desks.

Letter #2 was from (I assume) another enthusiast. I will quote the entire letter: "If you guys drop the Camaro, your Gay!"
OK.....he can't even spell "you're" and makes a ridiculous statement. Do you REALLy think people are going to respect the opinion of letter writer #2? Do you REALLY??? Do you REALLY think it would have been wise to copy THAT letter? We talk about the perception of the Camaro owner.....

Now....keep up the debate...that's a good thing. Tell us what you like, what you don't like...give us suggestions....and call us on something when you think you should. I DO find some really good stuff on this board......but I'll also tell you that I have found good things on other boards without the insults and 'shooting from the hip without thinking it through." Think about what you're saying....and think it through is all I'm asking.

Now...if I've upset some, I'm sorry.....but I do take exception when people unfairly accuse some of my co-workers. (I'm not referring to PacerX's post) We have some REAL DUDS as any company does. We also have some people who have dedicated their careers --their lifelong passions -- to making great cars and trucks.

One last thing....there are a lot of people from GM on this site....most will not post....because it is risky to do so. (I'm lucky...I don't have to worry about putting children thru college or paying for weddings etc. etc. etc.)

Let the debate resume! (now...you can continue to debate whatever you want..but I can't waste my time looking at every SS vs Z28 post...if someone sees something REALLY new.....email it to me......) (and NO, I'm not deciding for you..............)