Well, why not? I believe Ford would, if they had the development resources. And if they could sell more L's and HD's, you bet they would. "Keeping it exclusive"... bunch of cornpone ... oldest marketing trick in the world for rationalizing a small market niche.

It doesn't surprise me in the least to see no one here at camaroz28.com defending the SSR. Think about it - its the antithesis of a new 5gen Camaro. (Plus it seems all the fashion to gripe that none of GM's new offerings have enough power). But if I were to believe your theory about "limiting production to keep it exclusive" I could of course make the same case you have that Chevy is planning on only selling a small number of SSR's....

This is true. But if you are familiar with economics... let's talk about marginal benefit. The marginal benefit of rear legroom in excess of that on the Silverado SS is small. There's "enough" there to be comfy for most of the passengers typically frequenting a back seat. There's "not enough" for a Mustang's back seat passengers to be comfy unless they are small kids. The marginal benefit of the few inches MORE than that of the Mustang is huge! And BTW how often do tall people ride in the back seat of a vehicle? If two married couples go for a ride in an SS or HD, It's likely a man will be driving and his male counterpart will want to sit beside him to talk about the truck. Thus the rear occupants are likely to be smaller (well, unless they are gay or something ). If a family (of four in the case of the HD ) goes for a ride it's nearly certain the kids will be in the rear, owners manuals recommend it nowadays and if the kid(s) are in seats it may be required by law too.

Maybe it's my own personal tastes. There's often something that can be done about a shortage of leg room... in my TA I used to run the front seats way forward for the sake of rear passengers... but there's virtually nothing you can do about a lack of hiproom.

Not from Detroit are you?

...then it can rely on its superior brakes to get stopped
Also - it's not just about traction, it's about how symmetric the traction is and how sideways you become.

Why in the world?

Yes, thanks I did. If you want folks to go there though - just say 'go to chevrolet.com' then xxxx then yyyy...

I'm sorry, their credibility was shot the moment they chose a regular cab Dodge to be part of the comparo. And sure, the HD has a major torque advantage on their track test, and that is no doubt what got them all starry-eyed. But in real-life traffic I'll take cone-dodging and stopping prowess anyday, for example to avoid a deer.

You're doing it AGAIN! This is an economic comparison to an L. If I don't need a back seat - I'll play this game too. I'll order a reg. cab Silverado 1500 short bed with a 5.3 V8 and locker diff, street price $16k. Maybe add a couple $k to give it the leather seats etc like on an L. So let's say $19k. That still leaves me an outrageous $14k mod budget with which to go slaying L's

Good thing you're not my stockbroker... edmunds true cost of ownership predicts an 03 SS owner will lose $22,591 to depreciation in 5 years of ownership... but an 03 HD owner will lose $22,821! Here's one reason why:

Everyone knows people like to do this to L's and HD's... and it will be reflected in their street value after a lot of miles. How many owners doing the above also bolt on an aux trans cooler and switch to a heavy-duty maintenance schedule like they should?

Not quite. I'd have SIX liters to start with, not a puny 4.6 Remember displacement, that good old 'equalizer' for fancy power adders?

Profound! I've already stated I'm a GM fan. So what? While we're on the topic though. I'm not a fan of how the HD looks. I don't like Harleys either. They're primitive, heavy and over-macho. If I was going to get a bike I'd much rather have a Honda or Yamaha sport bike. Thus, I'm not impressed with heavy chrome badges, wheels, and harley-like leather. In fact it looks a little ridiculous, like someone wearing too much jewelry. In contrast... we were out for dinner yesterday and went past a Chevy dealer. We pulled in and I walked around a red Silverado SS. It had a mean-looking grille... wide tires on large sporty wheels... and the big but subtle exhaust tip. Very cool in my book.

 

Jesus man....you didnt even answer the question. I used Z84 as an example, just a random number pulled out of thin air. Maybe I should have said Zxx so as not to confuse you. You avoided my suggestion by saying that Z84 is already used, and SSE sounds like a Nissan. Oh well, I guess every other possible name on the planet is taken and SS was the only thing that could have been used. You like to argue.

Your second statement is appaling. 275 tires, exhaust tip and monochrome front end makes an SS No way....it makes a ricer. Thats almost the exact formula that many import drivers follow to make their cars look fast. Perhaps instead of whoring out the Vtech sticker, they should all put SS stickers on their hondas, as per your suggestion.

And yes, you do have a problem admitting anything that anyone elses ideas are valid. You admitted you were wrong, but jeez, only when showed cold hard facts and numbers. Youd have to be a moron to argue with factual stats.

Ive seen you argue with just about every idea on this 6 page forum. Your not open minded, which makes most of your rambling invaild. You continue to dethrone the opinions and ideas of others using any possible means.

Why are you super-opposed to the SS being a niche truck like both of the other American truck manufacturers have? Why? The current SS doesnt have to be nixed, just renamed (Z-some number that you dont have a problem with). Reguardless of your opinions or facts that you have stated about the perfomance of past SS vehicles, there are a vast number of GM loyals that consider SS to be something that you do not.

You know...I know for a fact that if GM had made a single cab, 500hp truck as the SS and some people in here had bashed it for any reason, you would be in here defending it to the death...just because you like to argue.

 

Huh? I thought I answered your question completely. You didn't ask 'what if it was Z-something' you asked 'what if it was Z84, etc' and someone else IIRC asked about calling it SSE. The problem with a new alpha-numeric is that there are so many nowadays, it's hard to avoid a 'collision' with another make/model's alpha name. I answered the core of your question without evasion - I do think this truck deserves to be called an SS - and I've made a pretty good case in this thread IMHO.

Taking my statement out of context contributed to your frustration here. I've already pointed out what else makes this truck special from a performance standpoint. It's a cut above regular Silverados. And as I've pointed out, historically that is all SS has ever been. It's not always been the hottest variant of a model. However it has always had some kind of visual cues to keep it unique, even way back in 1967 when typically it meant special wheel covers, a black grille, and some insignia (and of course a beefy engine). It might surprise you - I don't like how Chevy has in the past abused the name. EG, the 2002 Monte Carlo SS, with no special engine or drivetrain whatsoever (however that has since been remedied with the new supercharged MC SS). The suspension on the Silverado SS is labeled Z60 - is that what you would want the truck to be called? Unfortunately, unlike the Z71 moniker, Z60 has virtually no meaning to today's buyers - so I think it would be a poor name for the overall package.

Is that the best you can do, go after me the person? Aside from pointing out when one or two folks have contradicted themselves, I've not made any personal criticisms in the thread. Instead I focus on competing in the arena of ideas.

Speaking of open minded. I could make a case that there are some here who have a closed mind about what is 'allowed' to be called an SS. It's GM's trademark, they can use it however they want. I've said I disagree with how it's been used in the past, MC SS for example. But I think the Silverado SS deserves the name. I'm sorry if you don't like that, maybe it's because you yourself have some rigid thinking about the SS name.

Where do you get this? I think it would be great if Chevy put out a fire-breathing LS6 regular cab SS. However: I'm not sitting in a corner pouting just because it hasn't happened. Instead I happen to think it's right to celebrate the SS we do have.

 

I really wanted a Silverado SS. But the asking price in Hawaii is ludicrous. (unbeknownest to other Hawaiians, we buy SS up faster than Bill Klinton drops his pants in the whitehouse) Consequently, Hawaii dealers are able to sell the SS at 3-4k over MSRP. So, since I did not want to spend close to 50K on a large slow truck, I did the next best thing. I bought a Dodge 1500 Ram Quad Cab with the HEMI. I got it for 24500 out the door. I have since put on a FM cat back, True Flow intake, JBA ceramic coated headers. I have been able to kill all SS I run up against, and when Hypertech or Superchips comes out with a programmer, I will go looking for Harleys as victims. I wish GM offered affordable performance in RWD with four doors like DC or Ford. Unfortunately, they don't get it. I hope others don't come to that same conclusion as well.

 

KLee - must admit, I am impressed with the new Hemi engine. As for the SS - what made you want one? Also - I don't know much about HI... are there a lot of places people can do offroading? Or is it heavily restricted due to environmental activism. How many Chevy dealers did you check with for pricing?

 

I wanted a four door RWD or AWD car that had some guts. I have no intention of going off roading. I wanted a vehicle that could hang with Harleys or with some mods possibly surprise some Lightning owners. When the SS was finally released, I was very dissapointed. There are only three dealers in Hawaii, one, which normally sells at invoice would not sell the SS at anything other than 5% over MSRP! The other two were selling at whatever price they could get. It seems that all inbound SS were already spoken for.

 

KLee - my sympathies you have to live in a place with only three Chevy dealers! Weather is great though I imagine.

The Ram is very roomy and does appear to be a good value. I'm not keen on the cartoony styling but that's subjective. I got a curb weight for the crew cab from carpoint.com, looks like its about 200 lb heavier than the SS, so yeah, keep your headers

Back on the SRT10 though. Some guys on LS1.com are having a debate of L vs SRT10. (see it at http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...ighlight=srt10 )

The SRT10 seems to have a wheel hop problem, according to witnesses who have seen one at a track His words:

Another guy (L owner) pointed out some other SRT10 obstacles to quickness:

There's another thing I meant to mention. There's something annoying, *tractor-like* about the sound of Viper exhaust. Unfortunately the SRT10 will sound the same

 

The flatness of the V-10 takes some getting used to. Thats why I love the symmetric firing pattern of my Hemi!

 

Top performing Silverado? Base 2500 2wd regular cab with 5 speed & 4.10 axle.

But the SS has 45 more horsepower & 20 more lbs/ft of torque. Yes, but that extra power is hampered by the extra 800+ pounds of extra weight the extended cab and AWD drivetrain of the SS (4142 vs at least 4919 lbs).

By comparison, the reg cab Silverado weighs just over 100 pounds more than a '96 Chevrolet Impala SS weighing 4036, with 40 more horsepower and 30 more lbs/ft of torque. The Impala had a 3.08 axle and automatic.... The Silverado's is 3.73 standard and 4.10 optional with standard 5 speed.

Sounds like a potential 6 second to 60 truck to me.


Klee, what part of Hawaii do you live in? I lived there for a little over 3 years, 1st in Waikiki, then Pearl City, then the last few months over in Waianae. When I left, drifting was just catching on.

Bigdrknfast, Hawaii is extremely enviromentally conscious, but is mercifully free of the nut jobs we have in Northern California. Lots of respect for the envoroment, but none of the "all cars are bad, noone should eat meat" crowd around stirring up sh*t there.

There is plenty of offroading and drag racing there, and it's a very car conscious place (at least Oahu), though like California and most other big cities, you have alot of ricers. And yes, there are plenty of places where you can let your car rip into triple digits(especially H1 by the airport, and H2 headed to Schofield!). The down side is the police use laser and they still have a 55 mph speed limit. Otherwise, it's a great place.

BTW: Honolulu Police Department has previously used plenty of Monte Carlo SS (the mid 80s version), Ford Thunderbird Supercoupes, Muatang V8s (the newer ones), and Impala SSs (mid 90s version) as police cars, with only a plug-in roof mounted blue light as identification.

No, I'm not kidding.... Yes, the actual cars!!

 

4th Gen F-bodies are very popular with the police. Most have Camaro SS. Lots of Mustang GTs and a few Cobras.

 

A few were starting to pick up regular Z28s when I left.

For those of you wondering why, a great number if not most members of HPD get partial reembursement of their new car price, free installation of takedown lights, & maintenence if they use their car for patrol work, so since fast cars can be easily justified, that's what they tend to buy.

You rarely see marked HPD cars outside of downtown unless something is happening, but there's plenty of sport cars & SUVs with that magnetic blue light stuck on the roof.
(FWIW, downtown Honolulu contains courts, businesses, and Chinatown, usually not visitors & tourists).

Oddly enough, the state & city also save alot of money letting the cops buy their own car and giving reembursements instead of going through the system to buy them.

 

You still haven't answered any of my earlier question regarding the limitation Ford had set on themselves (like only selling them through a few SVT dealers, etc...)

Why not? Maybe because that main job lies on the shoulders of the regular F-series, not L/HD. L’s and HD’s were never meant to be “volume” trucks. Why not dump all? Despite struggling financially, Ford can come up with a reason to offer 2 sport trucks. Why did Ford make the GT/40? Profits certainly weren’t behind its approval for production. Maybe they use a limited edition performance model to bring more than just profits. You think DC is making the Viper and SRT-10 Ram at a profit?

It’s not here alone. On other boards, it’s even accepted less. We know the 5th gen isn’t going to go retro and we know Lutz’s stance on retro to begin with. No doubts there. The SSR’s design most likely will have little to nothing to do with the 5th gens and I’m sure most here understand that. That isn’t the reason why it isn’t accepted. Heck, the Mustang concept was retro, but it had most everyones approval here (on a camaro board too mind you). If you ask me, I’d say the SSR: is slow (16+sec), ugly, heavy, and the practicality isn’t that of a car or a truck.

Maybe that was that was the case. One difference though. SVT vs Chevy. Which has more at their disposal? Which can handle high production #’s? Which specializes in making limited production vehicles only? Which is a factory specialty/tuner like company? How much do SVT cars differ from non-SVT models and how does that compare with SS? Between SS and SVT, which has their own dedicated line of engineers and for the most part their own engines, etc..? SVT’s goals are different than that of SS. Don’t think their goals (including sales) are all similar.

Ahh, “most” passengers you say. I can squeeze most passengers (read smaller people) into the backseat of my stang. Most under 5’5” have had no complaints (unless they’re sitting directly behind me and I have the seat all the way back).

Maybe 2.4” is huge difference. I’d be interested to test it out myself. It may be an improvement over a sports coupe like the Mustang, but as far as rear seating goes, it isn’t the best place for full-sized adults.

I wouldn’t compromise MY comfort (the driver) for the comfort of the passenger who’s just along for the ride. My legs have enough trouble as is wrestling with the steering column and lower part of the dash as is.

As for hiproom, you’ve got 58” in the F-150. If you can’t fit three full grown adults in, one or more of them obviously needs to go on a diet. Even a family sedan like the Impala has 55” of rear hip-room.

No, but I am from Minneapolis. Maybe this is a good enough reason not to street race to begin with. But when push comes to shove, the HD has the muscle to leave most trucks in the dust. In most situations (ex: highway merging/passing, etc…), it comes right in handy. Either way, an SS beating it would be purely luck.

Still…no “equalizer”. There’s a lot of high performance rwd cars that do just fine on the streets.

I don’t really know. Rumors are…so people don’t think Harley are unreliable or some Bs excuse along those lines. I don’t know the story. Just some rumors that were thrown around last year. I don't even know if it's true or false. HD seems intent on sticking with 4 full doors and a short bed configuration and that is all I know.

Continued......

 

I didn’t realize it didn’t work till after posting. I did present the #’s though and had them in bold lettering. Those folks can either take my word for it or check for themselves

Are you sure their credibility wasn’t shot the second they started ripping on the SS apart while praising the HD? I don’t see how having an expanded cab Hemi in the mix would have made things better for the SS. Its numbers would have been the same, and the testers would have said the same things. At best, it’d have come in the middle of the pack while beating a truck that isn’t even DC’s performance offering.

In real traffic, you’d also want handling that is more poised and smooth, not rough around the edges like the testers put it. You want to feel like you’re in control. The more control the better. Nothing a few suspension mods couldn’t fix though.

No, I’m simply saying that if I wanted a performance truck, I wouldn’t buy an HD/SS to begin with. My ONLY choice and consideration would be the L. If I wanted a comfy back seat, 4wd/AWD, good towing, etc… I’d save my money and buy a regular crew cab 4x4 truck and call it a day. I have zero interest in either HD or SS.

Sure, you can go that route if you don’t care for your warranty. At least with the L, you can do minor bolt ons, dip into the low 13’s, and still retain you factory warranty. Getting a 5.3L 1500 to do the same thing would require major mods and with that, you can kiss your warranty goodbye. Picking a cheaper reg non-performance 5.3L over an L is like picking a v6 mustang over a Cobra and saying “I can spend the remaining 14k in mods”. My only reply: I hope you’re happy with you base 1500 cause I’d have no regrets with my L or spending the extra money. This game can be played by others as well. I can say: I can get a new v6 f-150 for 12k, find a donor L, and have an L duplicate for thousands less. It just goes on and on.

That’s a nifty tool. But here’s the point I had in mind earlier when I made that statement: The HD is a truer limited edition. By comparison, the SS is almost like the regular GM (C3 anyone?) truck offering. Edmunds also doesn’t really dictate what a car will REALLY cost 5 years down the line. It’s just an educated guess. I’m sure you’re familiar with Supply and demand. So far the only blown HD is the 03, with the previous ones being N/A. Next years HD is the slower and bigger F-250 Diesel since the L won’t be back till 05 with the new body/engine. The HD F-150 may or may not return in 05. Something tells me that the Blown HD is going to be a lot rare than the SS’s 5 years down the line. Bet Edmunds didn’t take that into consideration. Put them side by side, who can ask for the higher price 5 years down?

Won’t keep me from buying a used 03 Cobra or a 99 L. Mods are mods, and this holds true for every single car. People love to mod Mustangs and Camaro’s. The L is basically an enthusiast only truck. There’s always a risk with purchasing used performance vehicles.

The 4.6L was just an example, and it’s 5.4 vs 6.0. The basic idea holds true. You can always compare modified to stock, but what happens when the other plays the mod game too? You yourself said L/HD’s tend to be modified. To top it off, I doubt the SS has the potential of the S/c 5.4.

It means half the reason you’re defending it is due to the bowtie (I’m assuming). Brand loyalty goes a long way. It’s still a nice truck, but the performance while great for a truck isn’t as hot as some of us enthusiasts would like. Would you still have defended it if it was a Ford?

That’s fine. I kind of like it myself. It’s “flashy”, but it still comes off as “cool” and attractive imo. I like what Ford/HD have done with this truck. The 2 tone paint looks good too. There are plenty of things that set it apart from the rest of the f-150 lineup. Look at the SS from certain angles and you’ll probably mistake it for another Silverado. A look at the interior will also show you other similarities it has with other silverado’s. The SS’s got the cleaner regular Silverado look.

Funny, the import lovers have been saying that about mustangs/f-bods for years (primitive, heavy, over-macho). They prefer their lighter, higher revving, higher-tech imports and some do have a point. But still, our preferences lie with American v8’s. I personally don’t care for Harley either and prefer the sleeker and faster Japanese sport bikes. But that’s fine though. HD has done fine without guys like me and you for 100 years. As far as bikes go, they are an American icon and their popularity is unrivaled. Gotta respect for that.

Your gripes are half the appeal…Harley’s are all about chrome, macho-ness, and leather. This theme carries into the HD. It isn’t called the Harley edition for nothing.

I’m glad you liked it. Some lowering springs and it’d even look better.

 

I hate to jump back into a thread that I unsubbed from days ago, but I forgot to mention something. For all those who wanted to bring up the Harley F-150 after it was determined a better comparison to the Silverado SS, and stated the little bit of acceleration advantage was more important than the extra towing capacity of the SS.....

http://www.fordvehicles.com/features...cle_images.asp

The 2004 Harley truck will be a Superduty. So, it will be slower than than the SS, and be behind it in performance in everyway, except it will have a better towing capacity. Hmm, looks like the Silverado SS's closest competitor would be the Dodge 1500 Hemi quad cab, which the SS outperforms that truck in all aspects as well.

Enjoy.

 

I did indeed answer the question, sorry you don't happen to like the answer. As I said, it's simply the old marketing trick - "We'd sell more, we'd put out a whole LINE of variants and sell them all over at a tidy profit, but no, we want to keep them EXCLUSIVE" uh-huh

Kudos to Ford. They're making customers happy. GM has at least four - the SS, SSR, H2, and ZR2. As I've said, performance and sport means more than the quarter mile these days.

At least there is a ghost of a chace the Viper/Ram will yield some profits. There is not a chance in He** the GT will. The GT was built mostly due to the fragile ego of Jacques Nasser feeling bummed that Ford had no production car that could run with a Z06 or Viper. Sure, its a great car (unoriginal and way too much like the 1960's version, but that's another debate). But how exactly is it going to pull in more profits on other models? You're unlikely to ever see one in a showroom - nervous buyers will be waiting the day the hauler shows up at the dealer.
They won't be on the street or the track much - too expensive and parts will be a joke. No sunroof either

Here's an idea - why don't we see how it sells before passing judgement on how popular it is? You don't really know how it will sell, all speculation so far is based on your observations from boards like this - and we've already talked about the agenda on this Camaro enthusiasts site haven't we. OF COURSE Camaro enthusiasts respond positively to the new Mustang. It's a close copy of the most successful Camaro of all time, the IROC-Z Oh no, the SSR isn't...practical! It does have some utility, did you know that? Like 1000 lb payload and 2500 towing. I realize those aren't 'real truck' numbers, but that is more than most sedans and there is the bed in back. Most buyers are getting it for its unique style, rumbling V8 and retractable roof.

SVT is definitely doing some things right. But don't go too far into who has more at their disposal until you see the CTS-V being put out by the new GM Performance Division. And should I mention... that silly little dud, the thundering SVT Contour?

Be careful not to take my statement out of context. I said 'most passengers' for a reason. I would never claim anyone of any size would be comfy in the back of a Ford Crew Cab - would you? How about Michael Jordan, would he be comfy? My POINT was, the rear SS legroom is sufficient for pleasing a large number of customers with potential rear passengers who will find the rear seat comfy. It's not meant for every human ever born

Think about it. If you need to carry four large men around a lot, you're likely to be shopping for a work truck with a crew cab. (BTW if I buy into your theory that the HD will someday be a stunning collector's item, why on earth would I use it as a work truck?). If on the other hand I plan to scoot around with my family on board, well familes *usually* have some small members and they typically go in the back.

There's another aspect of this - looks. It's hard enough for me to look at the notchy side profile of a regular cab pickup and say 'wow that looks fast and sporty'. Put on an extended cab - it gets harder still. But when you have FOUR HUGE DOORS and a choppy little cargo box behind it... sorry that in NO WAY resembles a performance vehicle.

Having an appropriate Hemi truck in the mix would have shown the SS to be where it really is in the field of 4+ seat sporty trucks - mid-pack at worst. Instead the dunderheads at Truck Trend wanted a flashy comparo so they could sell more copies. And why doesn't DCX have an affordable sporty full-size truck? It would be easy to release an R/T four-door Hemi Ram... maybe they don't because it would look too clunky to be called R/T... ya think?

Well nonetheless it was a comparison you made

LOL! I have a $14k mod budget. You think I care a whit about my warranty?! Geez... I can put a whole spare crate engine in my garage with that kind of dough. Speaking of warranty. How many L owners are getting busted now by their dealers for their pulley mods? I imagine a significant number (not counting the lying cheaters).

How do you know? Did you build their estimation formulas for them? Sure, those are estimates. Insurance and building cost quotes are based on estimates too. We humans have gotten pretty good at estimating things you know (not perfect of course). Here's a twist for you. What do you suppose will happen to HD values in upcoming years if one or more of the foillowing happen:

1. Ford releases an extended cab L model on top of the regular cab
2. DCX releases an extended cab SRT10 which can actually hold a Harley
3. Chevy releases an LS6 ext and/or reg cab SS
4. Chevy releases an SS Avalanche

Whoa there buddy. You were the one who gave the example of building up a puny 4.6... now suddenly you feel the need to switch to 5.4? Hmm....

Blarney. As always... potential is DIRECTLY proportional to the $$$ in your mod budget. And the SS has AWD out of the box.

The key word here - some. SOME folks would like a little wading pool in the back too.... how many? Ten? Aided by AWD, the real-world road performance of the SS will still be plenty for keeping a lot of buyers happy. If the HD looked as good as the SS and had AWD, then yes I would advocate it too. If the four-door Ram didn't have a cartoony grille I would advocate it too.

To each his own I guess. I'm not a big fan of two-tone paint. On the SS - the only angle from which I cannot distingusih it from a regular Silverado is from directly above. The wheels are very distinctive, cool, striking and large - and prominent from every other angle.

Sure, I give 'em props for that. Harley has a niche. But their popularity is FAR from being 'unrivaled'. The sport bike phenomenon has dwarfed the Harley scene... and I'd go so far to say it's the future of motorcycling.