In 2000 and before, the SAME top engine was offered in the Camaro as was in the Corvette...didn't hurt sales any then either....two different animals here.

 

for the most part, I agree with you.

There ARE exceptions.

 

That "ARE" can be interpretted a few different ways.

 

First off, Hey Scott , nice to see you jump in.

Secondly, SETTLE for a Corvette? OMFG (look it up if ya don't know what it is) are you on a crack ?

Settle for a world class sports car? I find it truly amazing that people talk about the GT500 like it is going to stomp a 'Vette. Yes it MIGHT be faster in a straight line, but I doubt it will be that much faster. Also, somehow, I am not seeing the Corvette being the top choice for the drag racer. Could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the Corvette attratced an audience more concerned with the overall performance of the car. As nice as the GT 500 is, it is no Corvette.
Yes, I am Camaro fan, and sincerely hope that Chevrolet has a kick *** 'Maro in the works. But saying settle and Corvette in the same sentence, is just plain wrong!!

 

Dude you just don't get it. 'Maro.....yea ok.

 

There are *very* few people that cross shop between a Camaro and a Corvette. But for the most part, A potential Corvette buyer is not going to opt out because there is a ~35K Camaro that is faster. When the SLP SS/WS6's prices creep towards 35K, did it hurt the Corvettes sales at all? No.

 

'Maro - what my son called my Z28 as a toddler.

 

I know what you were saying in the other thread about the LSx motors being far cheaper to produce than the blown Ford mod motors for similar power output, but Chevy could get away with charging GT500-like prices, and they probably would. I just look at the CTS-V, a close to $20,000 markup for an LS6 that probably costs less to assemble than the HF 3.6, and some suspension and appearance mods. You pay a premium for power no matter what form it comes in.

 

In order to compete with the Mustang's huge following, the Camaro would need as good or better performance at better pricing. With that in mind here's my ideal situation...

In today's age of honoring heritage and all that is retro...pull some cubes out of the 427 LS7 and you have the SS396 Camaro reborn. Keep the price below $35K and the horsepower in the 450-475 range for the SS396. For the Z/28, use the LS2, keep the price below $30K and the horsepower in the 375-400 range.

In an ideal world, you would keep some of the fru-fru content (Nav, heated seats, etc...) out of the Z/28 to keep the weight down, then you have two "models" that would have similar straight line performance, but the Z/28 would honor it's heritage by being both powerful and optimized for track use.

I fully realize that cost and sales projections will drive what will happen, but we can dream...

 

The Camaro must compete with the M*stang and Challenger, the Corvette will just have to go up in power, which it probably will anyway. If not, what's the sense? Also, the GTO?! The GTO is not a M*stang competitor, not quite sure where the thinking was going when this post was made! The Z28 as we all know deserves to be recognized for what it always was in this new Gen after being disregarded as a bargain car for the first time ever in the 4th Gen. It needs to be that Camaro exculsive designated Z06-type car. No one is saying it has to be low content, people will pay for all the options like they did in every other Gen, Z28 was always the most expensive in the first 3 Gens and half of the 4th. GM needs to realize how important the history and names are to a car, F*rd does and guess what? It works.

 

Yes, you're sensitive. Gals like that... make like you're sensitive and then let 'em have it.

Using my finely calibrated cost goggles, if the engines have the same number of parts, and they're roughly the same size and weight, and the parts are produced using basically the same manufacturing processes out of the same materials - then the cost is roughly equivalent.

Now, the 5.3 will have a significant cost advantage due to volume because of the trucks, but we're not talking about thousands of dollars here - we're talking about an awful lot less than that. It will not be the driver that turns a $25,000 car into a $40,000 car. In the end it seems to me that the LS2 is going to end up in a LOT of cars, which will minimize the impact somewhat.

And you're damned right. There is NO good reason for a Camaro to not out-perform a Mustang. The "Corvette Rule" is a rule that needs to be turned on it's head. If Camaro is intruding on Corvette's performance, the Corvette isn't fast enough.

 

You can't really look at it like that. The change from LS1 and LS2 didn't affect the Corvettes/GTO MSRP..

 

Given the fact that Ford , not having a Corvette class performance car has always had the ability to stong arm GM in the pony car market . For what ever reason , they really havent and further let GM own the show performance wise with the 4th gen F-bodies its entire life span . Well , guess what , Fords strongarming . Just because ford says they want a piece of the base vette with the GT500 , is GM just supposed to say oooook . Its time for GM to put up or shut up . Ford raised the bar pretty damn high in the ponycar ranks , and in the same situation they also forced the Vette to better as well . So naturally my opinion is , GM needs to have a Camaro to beat heads or beat the head of the new GT500 , and make necessary adjustment to the Vette to allow that to happen . Priced accordingly with a GT500 , meaning $35-37K .

 

WOW!

Yep, guess I dead bring out that corpse didn't I.

I probally won't get to Detroit (SEMA and LA's show is where I usually end up).

Yep, a bit sensitive.

Word is the 5.3 doesn't cost much less than the LS2 to manufacture. Sure, you can throw in the cost of upgrading the drivetrain & cooling systems, and maybe a few other items, but we most certainly aren't talking about the price difference between, say, a the old Mustang 4.6 2v and the engine used in the Mach1.

As for a Camaro that keeps up or beats a GT500, there is only one engine GM currently makes that can do that: The LS7.

Now THIS engine is not cheap to make. It's hand assembled, has a different block and components, has such features as oil cooled pistons, and all in all is a pretty exotic engine. GM isn't going to stick this engine in anything south of 40 grand.

Unless we are talking about a Camaro that's as light or lighter than a Corvette with slightly more than LS2 power levels or a very effective supercharger strapped on top of that engine, I don't see GT500 performance likely without flirting around the 38-40K mark.

Of course, I'd absolutley LOVE to be wrong, but as a realist and looking at history (not just GM, but everyone's) I doubt it.


Corvette is always going to be faster even with the same engines as Camaro, if for no other reason than it's lighter.

 

At 3200lbs with an 400hp ls2, a camaro could keep up with a 450hp 3800lb gt500. Depends on what Fords final numbers are from this car before we say it cant keep up.