Thank you - and damn proud of it. However, that doesn't mean I am anti-union. Doesn't mean I'm pro-union either.

PS...don't worry....Hillary will resume handouts starting in Jan of 09.

 

Be careful on that one. Almost every company that emerges from bankruptcy protetion issues brand new stock and the old stock is worthless. I suspect Delphi will be the same.

 

We must have a few CEO's posting here.

Welcome to civilized society. Workers have rights.
Don't like em? Move to China. They don't have any over there.
I for one love America and its laws to protect its citizens.

 

Nobody said they didn't.You're not alone on that

 

Well Union bashing to me says that these people don't like the rights workers are afforded by the US government.
To disagree with a specific action is plauseable on both sides.
I have seen poor decisions made on both sides over the years.
I am not so blind as to stereotype all Managment as incompetent idiots destroying shareholder returns based on one company.

 

Hopefully this will turn into a good thing ...... for everybody. The last thing GM, Ford, and Chrysler need is another bad thing . Good things for them = good things for the country and in turn good things for the union workers.

David

 

The problem with Union is not the Labor rate. The problem with the Union is that it takes 3 people to do what should take one person. Actually get off of your asses and do "work" and not the "That's not my job" mentallity or "I can work as fast as 'I' want."

The $27.00 an hour would not be a problem if the workers actually worked (and I'm sure there are some that do), but i doubt it's the majority.

Just like the lady that called on the radio the other day defending the Union. She said she was UAW (Chrylser) and that they started coming and timing her work. She had the Union file a complaint because she has Union rights and they have no right to time her job performance... PLEASE. She deserves $5.00 hour IF that for that comment. I'd fire her on the spot if that was one of my employees.

Anther example of Union problem. My friend works as a salaried engineer for GM. THey purchased a new piece of test equipment and it broke down. It was only two months old so my friend called the salesman and had him come and look at it. He 'almost' (after his boss said that it was stupid and not to worry about it) got written up when the UAW threw a fit because he was supposed to have a UAW mechanic look at it first. It was still under COMPLETE MANUFACTURER WARRANTY. In fact, they could not even let the manufacturer come in and fix it (labor covered in warranty) - the UAW would only let the manufacturer supply the part free and the UAW Mechanic had to install it. How STUPID is that!

 

Werd. On another car message board I visit, so many people are for outsourcing mfg. jobs to places like China and I can't understand it. They don't care because they're not the ones losing a job that pays $20-$30/hr. Eventually there will be plenty of people who won't be able to afford anything cheap or not, if all these good paying jobs go overseas. Good thing for me is that I'm a college student so I will have a job when I get out.

 

[offtopic]
There has been a lot of stupid things said in this thread, but that's the by far the stupidest I've seen posted on the whole board in a long time.

 

Hey, delivering pizza is a job!

 

That is one of my big problems with the union.

I would kind of like to balme GM for signing the agreement with the UAW but I do not feel that GM had too many options. The unions were formed because they were needed. Big companies like GM and Ford had goons in the begining to intimidate the union leaders into accepting their terms. Now unfortunately the situation has reversed and the union is the one intimidating the autoworkers with threats of strikes and such.

In reality though there is plenty of blame to go around. You can blame doctors for the rising cost of healthcare, but really that could be blamed on the US legal system and the amount of frivilous lawsuits that occur throughout the US. These lawsuits cause the price of insurance for medical practices and professionals to be astronomical. You could also blame the problems in the US auto industry on the managers for making poor decisions and poorly predicting market trends and general mismanagement. You can blame the engineers for not designing cars that the american public don't believe to be better than foreign competitors (although as an engineer it does make you think twice about working for a company that will lay of engineers when times are tough over the union workers [who are sometimes higher payed than you] so maybe the auto industry is missing out on some of the best and the brightest engineers). And you can blame it on th union for asking for too much money and too many benifits. Its everyones fault and no ones. And maybe its the american media for failing to show American autos in a favorable light compared with their foreign counterparts. Maybe its the forein companies for allowing "slave labor". Its probably microsofts fault somehow or the FBI.

I do say however that we work on the union problems, push for tort reform and give the management and engineers a fighting chance. But thats just me.

 

morb|d,
"see there is concrete evidence of abuse by the UAW as stated above. where in that article is the mention of ANY facts regarding the SEC investigation? none, just that there IS one."

To me, that is not concrete evidence. That's just a report of what DELPHI SAYS it cost. It's just a statement. YOU are making the jump from "job bank cost $400 million a year" and "Delphi is required to pay GM wages of $27 an hour to most of its 24,000 UAW-represented workers. That's double the level of competing suppliers" to "that's abuse by the UAW." Your abuse theory is how you want to read that statement. And you are also believing those numbers. How do you know those numbers are accurate? Remember, the UAW didn't hold a gun to Delphi's head. They both agreed to those terms.

And there aren't any facts regarding the investigation for several reasons.
The biggest probably being that no one can talk about an on-going investigation. Other reasons why you don't hear about it is; why would Delphi talk about it? It would make them look bad. They're not going to slit their own throats. It's easier for them to blame the UAW and the workers. Why would the analysts talk about it. The analysts are big business-type of people. They're all in bed together. They're not going to talk bad about the management team when the UAW and the workers are an easier target.

Notice how Delphi is blaming everybody but themselves. The UAW, the workers, and now GM for the spinoff agreement. They ought to look in the mirror to find the source of blame.



"Imagine the US auto industry is now in it's hay day. and agreement between GM and the UAW specifically states there will be no wage increases until the next negotiation period. how likely is that to happen, heh? but just imagine. So as per the letter of the agreement, GM is in the right. they're making butt loads of cash and aren't paying the workers fair wages. so what does the UAW do in that case? I can tell you they wouldn't just sit around waiting. they would rally the troops and have a big-ol strike."

You're plain wrong here. Both parties are bound to the letter of that contract. If GM started making butt-loads of money, the UAW is powerless to do anything within that contract. They would have to wait for the next contract negotiation period to try to change the contract. They CANNOT strike.


"now, do you see this happening in reverse? do you see the UAW making concessions on behalf of its members to help SAVE THEIR JOBS? No. You do not."

Wrong again. They are making concessions. Our locals just made a ton of them to keep our plant open. There seems to be an article almost daily in Detroit News on the on-going negotiations between the UAW and GM about concessions. Chrysler just won some health care concessions.



R377,
"This isn't Enron or Worldcom"
You KNOW that it isn't? But it's like a few of you keep saying. We don't have all the facts yet. But we know it's not like Enron or Worldcom.


And just to set a few other things straight.
You don't sit home when you're in the Jobs Bank. The majority of the time, you're in the plant doing non-traditional work. If you're not in the plant, then you are working for a charity. It's called giving back to the community. You collect your regular salary and benefits while in the Jobs Bank.

When you get laid off. You collect S.U.B. pay (Supplemental Unemployment Benefits Pay). S.U.B. pay works like this:
Take your gross weekly pay,
Subtract normal taxes and dues,
This leaves your net weekly pay.
Now take 95% of that.
Subtract taxes and dues.
Subtract $30 from that (let's call this number P).
That is your paycheck, of which your state's unemployment will pick up the max that they would pay out.
The auto manufacturer only picks up the difference between the max amount from your state and P.

Let's use a gross salary of $1200 per week in the state of NY as an example.
$1200 = gross pay
less $420 for taxes, etc
$780= net pay
$780 x .95 = $741
less $237 for taxes, etc
$504 = true net pay
$504 - $30 fee = $474
$474 - $405 (NY State's max weekly unemployment benefit) = $69.
$69 is your payment from your employer.

Hope that helps.

 

I would like to personally thank you HuJass for informing us with some real hard facts.

Thank You..

 

The reason it's not Enron or Worldcom is because the failures of those two companies were based on wildly overstated sales and profits, and a huge a run up of their share prices based on doctored books and false reporting. Thousands of people lost a combined billions of dollars when the truth was uncovered.

Delphi, on the other hand, has not reported incredible sales or profits, and their market cap has not been driven up through the roof. Quite the opposite.

While there may well be wrong doings at Delphi, it simply cannot be on the same scale as Enron or Worldcom. When Worldcom declared bankruptcy their assets were 6 times greater than Delphi's; Enron's were almost 4. Delphi has never been high enough to fall as far as those two.

 

sir, you're a paranoid UAW stooge. and it is painfully obvious to anyone reading your garbage.

i bet you stay up at night dreaming up ways "THE MAN" is plotting to take down the UAW. The scary part is that you probably believe all of those stories you dream up. all-the-while the UAW is doing a dang good job of sinking themselves without "THE MAN" even lifting a finger (not that anyone could really fight the UAW mob).

GET THIS STRAIGHT, I do not wish the idea of the union to fail. Nore do I wish for those people putting in an honest day's work to go underpayed. But I'd love to see the current trend of unions like the UAW abusing their positions of power END. Sadly, with people like you blowing the "us vs them" horn, the UAW is going to sink hard, and with that possibly destroy the union as a workable concept alltogether. what employer, you know the person giving you a paycheck for doing work is going to want to deal with the UAW kind of mess?? I wouldn't if I was in that situation. And that's why the harder you guys push, the less anyone will listen to you. The sooner you and others like you realize that the better for everyone.