Ain't that a fact! It's really a shame too.

 

Chrome383Z,
"They think that without the Union GM would be paying them slave wages when in fact we have laws against that now."

No. They don't think that the auto companies will pay them slave wages. They know better than that. All they want is a decent wage; so they can afford a decent house in a decent neighborhood and a new car. The American Dream. What's so bad about wanting that?


Mastdriver,
"My question is why havn't upper management taken pay cuts? Why do they not see that necessary? I think that what UAW workers are afriad of is that they will get paid $10 an hour and mangement will take that extra money and give it to themselves."

Bingo!!

"Why must it be necessary for management in GM, or any of the big 3, to make the pay they get while the company suffers? I like what Bill Ford as done over at his company. He has proved to everyone that he is determined to turn the company around. What he is doing is more then just words.

While I'm still not for the UAW or most unions, from my dad's personal experience, I think it maybe time for management to take some cuts too? The street to making a profit is not one-way."

You get it.


ckt101,
"How many times have we seen companies handing out 5 or 6 digit yearly bonuses to all of the upper management, even in years where the company has lost billions? How many times have we seen an upper level person, who is being cut loose after sinking the ship, being given a multi million dollar severance package? How many creative accounting scandals do we have to hear about, where a small handful of executives get very rich, while everyone else loses everything?"

You also get it.


del|tu,
Strike? That's the LAST thing a UAW member wants to do. Do you know what you get paid while on strike? $85 bucks a week. Nobody can survive on that. And a UAW member recognizes all the bad blood a strike can bring to bear. They do not want to strike, believe me.

"the time and money lost to even operate at 50% capacity would be staggering."

It didn't and doesn't seem to be affecting Northwest Airlines one bit.

 

Here's some food for thought from Detroit News:

"Delphi also wants to create a new severance plan for which about 13,000 workers would qualify, and has requested permission to give about 600 executives worldwide as much as a 10 percent stake in the company as a bonus if the company emerges from bankruptcy.

Nearly 500 U.S. executives could also get cash bonuses equal to 30 percent to 250 percent of their base salary for a successful exit from Chapter 11.

UAW President Ron Gettelfinger on Saturday blasted Delphi for lining the pockets of its executives while asking hourly workers to accept pay cuts, lower benefits and plant closings.

Scherer echoed the sentiment, saying it's been the same way for most of his 28 years as an autoworker.

"It doesn't matter what we give up," he said, "they're never happy. They always want more."

And this:

“Delphi’s decision would be extremely disappointing under any circumstances, but it is all the more so in light of the company’s announcement on Friday – just one day before filing bankruptcy -- that it had sweetened the severance packages for Delph’s 21 most highly compensated executives because the old severance package was – as a Delphi spokesperson put it -- ‘uncompetitive.’

“Once again, we see the disgusting spectacle of the people at the top taking care of themselves at the same time they are demanding extraordinary sacrifices from their hourly workers, engineers, administrative and support staff, mid-level managers and others. All of them deserved better from Delphi’s senior executive leadership.”


So let's hear you union bashers justify these topics.

 

The key word here is "competitive". White collar workers operate in an environment of competition where they get get paid mostly according to what the market dictates. In the example above, Delphi discovered that these executives' compensation package was below what they could likely get elsewhere, and thus had to meet the level of the market otherwise there would be a very good chance they'd leave. These executives' skill were valued enough by the company that they had to take this action.

Also note that the above examples were were either a severance package, meaning that it only kicks in if the person quits; or an incentive that's payable only if the company manages to come out of Chapter 11. It was not a simple pay increase. Although having said that I will admit it seems overly generous for most of those 500 executives.

There nothing at all wrong with wanting it. But you gotta earn it. Like it or not, not everyone in this country has the skills necessary to get there. Basic assembly line jobs are simply not worth well over $100,000/yr. Want proof? Open up a new auto plant, post jobs at $15/hr and the lineup of qualified applicants would stretch a mile. That's the value our economy places on that kind of job. Now try posting the same pay for, say, an Engineer or a Manager, and see how many qualified applicants you get.

To suggest that every citizen in the country should be automatically granted a middle-class lifestyle regardless of merit, is pure socialism. History has proven time and again that it's a sure path to the downfall of an economy.

 

I'm going to drop a 100 pound common sense weight on the next person who lauds Ford for taking the paycut he did. It's purely publicity move folks, he did not do that out of the goodness of his heart.

 

HuJass, I have to agree with you that some people in management need to take Bill Ford's example and put it into practice. The UAW needs to realize though that not everyone should be paid 60/70+k a year just so they can live.

The way some people(not specifically anyone on here) talk about nonunion workers, it makes it sound like they are all rich and have all the money. Not everyone that has a blue colar is making six figures.

Like I said earlier, the street to a profit is not one-way. The sooner management of some companies realize this, I'm sure the quicker Unions will disappear.

 

mastrdriver steps up to be the first...*drops weight*

 

I don't know the story behind this, but I can tell you right now that he didn't HAVE to do it out of "the goodness of his heart" for it to be right. You say it's purely a PR move, and it could be. I'd say unless he's secretly getting funding through alterior means, his move is genuine in that he did it for the good of THE COMPANY and to carry on the legacy of his great grandfather. I'd do the same in his position.

Is your weight made of Unobtainium BTW?

 

Not saying they want to strike. But fact is this is the "gun to GM/Delphi/Ford/etc. head" is the threat of strike. GM doesn't want a strike either not just because of the time and money they would lose. (And it would be a much different situation from NW Airlines simply due to the scale). But because there would be a lot of people out of work and it would further separate the management from the union workers. They get paid $85 an hour while they are on strike? That's crazy. I assume it is the union that has the money to pay them while they are on strike.

Doesn't matter. That's what they need. The upper management taking pay cuts will not affect the bottom line as much as all of the union workers. It's the gesture that matters and improving upper managements pensions right before you file for bankrupcy is the exact opposite. Everybody in these companies need to be in this together and that is just not the case. Also it should start with upper management not the union workers. The upper management should be the first ones to make sacrifices and unfortunately that is not the case.

Also doesn't matter this is a bad time to start getting competitive on the high end.

 

Heh, he isn't getting funding through alterior means. Think about this though, Bill Ford, Ford Motor Company. Don't you think he knew that by essentially doing something with no risk, he would make himself look much better? Do you think the salary he makes means much of anything to him? I think it is pretty funny that he can basically give away his fun money and people are impressed by it.

He owns 2.7 million shares, his salary is paltry by comparison. He received a stock bonus equal to 1.5 million dollars in 2003, 113,000 shares. You ever think he decided that, "Hey, I own all this stock, if I do this no salary thing my stock price will go up a lot more than a few years worth of salary."It's not like the guy isn't getting compensated for his time, he is getting paid about as much as everyone else. It's all just PR folks, wake up.

Don't misunderstand what I am saying though, it's a brilliant move. It helps the company, it helps his image, and it helps the publics perception of the company. It's just very funny that he is being treated like a saint for it.

 

Surprised this is still open, but I'll toss on another log:

Linky

Here's a nugget:

Delphi's key employee compensation plan, which requires court approval, also provides for annual cash bonuses to encourage executives to stay through its restructuring

and another:

The bonus proposal comes on top of Delphi's announcement Friday that it had sweetened severance packages for 21 top executives

But yeah, let's shoot the union.

 

The difference is, production line workers aren't exactly a flight risk. just the exact opposite. and the reason for that is that if necessary, it is A LOT easier to find a monkey to turn a wrench (even if a well trained monkey) than it is to find talented people to lead the company and solve problems.

I see the situation from both ends. And in a way you're right why should management be offered MORE in time of trouble? On the other hand your examples don't absolve the UAW of any blame. If that was your intention then you're caught in a logical fallacy.