And here's another argument. Pontiac needs an entry-level RWD platform... something more substantial than Solstice, that can produce G5 and close-to G6-sized vehicles on the same RWD/maybe optional AWD chassis.

Entry-level coupe and/or hatch starting around $20k, also do a small sedan, and maybe base the next Solstice on this same platform. 4 cyl. and turbo 4's.

The G6 replacement would be $25k sedan and wagon, with 4, turbo 4, and v6. Make them sporty, make them handle, make them RWD, and they will sell. There is an enthusiast market that will buy these cars - moreso than Pontiacs are bought by people (as opposed to fleets) now.

Entry-level RWD. Rather than target where its competitors are today, target where they aren't.

(Maybe I should apply for John Larson's now-vacant job as Pontiac's division head. Hey, I will be in Detroit next weekend

 

Unfortunately, you are too late, my man:

 

Quote:
DETROIT -- General Motors has chosen Jim Bunnell to run its Buick, Pontiac and GMC channel. Bunnell, 51, is general manager of GM's north central sales region.
He replaces John Larson, 44, who left GM to become COO of Escort Inc., a radar-detector manufacturer in West Chester, Ohio.
Bunnell's appointment as general manager of the three brands is effective immediately. Larson's job at Escort starts in June, but he has left GM, a spokeswoman says.
__________________________________________________ _____________

Jim Bunnell was General Manager of Pontiac/GMC in 2004. I was impressed with an article he wrote in a dealer magazine then, where he mentioned that Pontiac sales were great when they had: GTO, Firebird, Trans Am and Fiero. A Gen Mgr who understands the value of heritage. First order of business: Can the alphabet soup.

Look at this unsuccessful attempt by Pontiac to justify the alphabet soup:
http://pontiacunderground.autos.yaho...blog.php?id=64
I feel sorry for whoever had to write this. Look at the 20th post for the reply I wrote. I am sure there are marketing people within GM that think these names suck, like we do. I would guess the names are forced on them by someone with alot more power.

Look at the damage done at Buick since the renaming, sales are way down. Three GM JD Power initial quality cars have been cancelled over the last few years, for the sake of renaming (LeSabre, Century and Grand Prix). Maybe GM should have hired the Boeing exec, since he understands the value of a great heritage.

 

I only skimmed this but here is my two cents.

PontiacGMCBuick is a good plan. I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to trim it down to three/five cars of high quality, at a good price, with a performance breeding and more importantly a performance look.

A roadster
A compact coupe/sedan a la G35 and IS
A midsize coupe/sedan

People will swear up and down their Acura is the fastest thing on the road, has nothing to do with what its capable of. Its image. Pontiac is for people who are young and trendy, or feel young and trendy. People who want more style then Chevy, don't need Buick space and don't have Cadillac money yet.

 

As to the alphabet soup -- the problem isn't the people would buy a Grand Prix, it's the people who wouldn't.

Determining consumer perception of a brand name isn't a very difficult task, so even though General Motors is often inept, I'm inclined to trust them on this one.

 

All RWD, from small to large, economy to performance. It won't be high volume, but it should be high profit margin. If it turns out that small RWD doesn't sell, then just cut it back, keeping the profitable models. I think AWD just muddies the waters. Leave that to Cadillac, Saab, and Saturn.

Cladding is a thing of the past. Let's leave it there along with tailfins, please.

 

I don't agree. The number of people who want a FWD hot rod is too small for Pontiac to be profitable with this.

Why won't they buy a RWD G8?

Besides, even if you're right, GM's problem is not their appeal in Illinois. It's their appeal in California. Only Honda/Acura can get away with prestige FWD, and that's only because there are so many worshippers at the Honda altar.

Pontiac needs to be a clearly marketed line. It can't be a RWD here, FWD there, mismash designed to appeal to everyone. That's the point of having a half dozen divisions.


Make Pontiac Value RWD. Put Chevy up against Honda/Toyota. Pitch Saturn against ... well ... Honda/Toyota ... for people who don't want to buy Chevys (I guess -- this is kind of hard ). Pitch Saab against Audi/Acura. Pitch Cadillac against BMW, Mercedes, RWD Lexus. Pitch Buick against FWD Lexus, Lincoln.

If GM needs a FWD hotrod, give it to Chevy. That applies to small cars with a turbo 4 and large cars with a V8.

Dilute Pontiac's message like GM has been, and it will continue along the way it has towards oblivion.

 

Cobalt SS Turbo

Forget selling this car as a Pontiac.

 

Replying to my own post
Pitch Saturn against Volkswagen/Mazda. Chevy against Ford/Honda/Toyota.

 

Does this mean that Escort will replace its Passport 8500 and 9500 with the new P5, P6, and P8 models?

 

That's one of the huge positives that came from the GTO program... they sold a majority of them in California, Florida, Texas, and THEN Chicago in that order. It certainly brought a young, affluent crowd to Pontiac dealerships that otherwise wouldn't consider them. Unfortunately the average service experience in most Pontiac dealerships will probably keep most of these folks from ever coming back

Examples here:
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showpos...35&postcount=1

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=34

Find a way to fix that problem and market Pontiac to the SCCA/NASA crowd...

 

Unfortunately, some of that is the cost of doing business with a performance car. I think you can find similar stories from every manufacturer.

In any case, GM's selling lots of GTOs in Chicago sort of dispels the myth that no one in Chicago will buy a RWD car.

 

Please scan the board meeting you were at where you learned this? Plenty of people like expressive, performance oriented FWD cars. The last gen Grand Prix got it right and sold well till it was replaced. People stopped buying the new Grand Prix because it is a noncompetitive car, with ugly styling, and less performance than the car it replaced (I know since I bough two of them, haha). These people are now buying sporty sedans like the Mazda 6 and Nissan Altima that were not around when the last GP was there. The G6 is concived as too small, and not as performance oriented/expressive as these cars buy buyers.

Have you ever left CA? It snows in half the country pretty good every year. There is a conception that FWD is better in the snow then RWD. Whether that is true or not, it is a stereotype no one is gonna kill in the immediate future. That being said, in northern states, most RWD cars are either third cars, or summer only cars that don't get driven in the snow. Trying to sell these people RWD as a daily driver is like selling snow shoes in LA. I know people here in MD who buy FWD cars because they are better in the snow...and we don't even get that much snow. Might seem minimal to you...but I really think that very few buyers in the snowbelt will be trading in GP's for G8's.

It's those buyers in Illionois that are paying the bills that keep GM's factorys going. You don't abandon them, and go chase some Starbucks drinking, Honda Civic with a fart can driving yuppie that would never consider a GM car even if it was coated in 24K gold.

Pontiac's traditionally have been GM cars with more expressive styling, and better performance that a Chevrolet for slightly more money...nothing more. Pretty simple formula IMO...and hard to bungle.

Makes no sense if you want to move metal and make some cars. Every RWD car GM makes will be lucky to sell at a half the volume of the FWD car's they replaced. This is again because people in snowbelt states will not buy RWD for a daily driver (aside from the few true enthusiasts). Where do the buyers that Pontiac is giving away go? I am willing to bet many will not be buying Impala's which the could have bought for less in the first place. GM's biggest problem is that it's new cars are loosing volume against the models they replace creating idle workers and unused capacity.

This will be the kiss of death for Pontiac because volume will finally get so low it will be much easier to just kill it off then fix it.

I agree

Saab should go against Volvo.

I agree. IMO Pontiac and BMW should never be mentioned in the same sentence because it dilutes Caddilac's gains. If Cadillac is GM's best effort to catch BMW and they are still not there....there is no way Pontiac will ever come close. The greatest Pontiac's were in 60's, and they were just tarted up Chevy's with styling and performance that captured people's hearts. There is nothing BMW about that, or Pontiac's since...so by mentioning the two togethor, you just make people who know better laugh and create a comparision Pontiac will never look good in.

To do that, GM needs to throw every current Buick away (aside from Enclave), and start over with a new midsize and large FWD platform.

The problem with your plan is that it narrows Pontiac's potential customer base so much that there is no way it can survive. RWD cars have been hard to sell for years now...and the idea of an all RWD brand is laughable IMO unless they offer AWD on every car also. Regardless of what people say...Pontiac needs a large FWD sedan (how many Grand prix buyers will buy a Buick instead?), AWD Grand Prix, and Delta based sedan and coupe with styling turned up a notch. People who are in a Pontiac dealership will rarely go the a Chevy dealership to look around, so I do not see what the issue is.

 

The only reason FWD cars are considered better in snow is because of the marketing and hype given to it in the 1980s. This can be reversed by showing that stability control is just as effective or even more effective at maintaining control in adverse conditions.

RWD is not a death-nell in the snow belt. Look at the popularity of the Charger and 300C.

 

Actually, I think it's really easy to bungle. Since "more expressive" can often equal ugly or cramped. The G6 is supposed to be a more expressive Malibu, and it apparently didn't make it for you. That's the problem when you try to slice things too fine.

Pontiac needs something new. GM needs to try to recapture the Sunbelt and west. They have a chance with quality Chevrolets and with performance-oriented Pontiacs that have a real difference. Let Saturn have the "more expressive Chevrolet" market. It's a more natural fit for Saturn anyway.