muckz

Good point about M5. I wanted to find out how much difference in price there is between 540 and M5 (actually, 540 is almost as fast as LT1 fbody, I am rather nicely impressed). Anyhow, this is what I found:

540i - starting at $51,800
540i 6-speed - starting at $55,800
M5 - starting at $70,400

Actually, the increase is not THAT much. I also do not know what is in M5 that isn't in 540, other than higher horsepower, better suspension and appearance.

kizz

if $50K CTS-v is a real price, then my enthusiasm for that car has just dropped by at least 50%. It's a f*cking ripoff. I was hoping for around $45K. Do the math.

Difference in parts / performance between a CTS and a CTS-v ,

Difference in price between a CTS and a CTS-v ,

are you really getting the same value with a CTS-v as with a CTS, adjusted for the differences? It would appear not... I'm sure it'll still be a must-have-toy for rich-f*ckers so it'll sell a few, but I don't see any great sales for it, if this price is true.

gt

94GreenZ28

Two things:

$50k might be a little much but I am sure they're going to sell all 3k of them. A loaded cts is around $35k, so $15k extra is quit a bit. But you'd have to admit there's a big difference from the ctsv and cts. Lets see 18" wheels, new rear-end, ground effects, 6 piston brembos, t56, ls6, upgraded suspension, and I'm sure I'm missing a few.

I don't think I'd go ahead and say BMWs are reliable. I've heard a lot of bad stories about them. One of them would be my Uncle's 2002 740i an $82k car. The car was in the shop so much and it had so many problems they gave him a 2003.

94LightningGal

Nobody said anything about BMW's actually being reliable......... they said that people "think" they are reliable. Also, German marques have a built in prestige that can demand a much higher price.

It will take a long time for Cadillac to make that transition. I think Cadillac needs to take Oldsmobiles tag line....... "it's not your fathers Cadillac." The general perception of Cadillacs is that they are big land barges that drive like **** and float over the highway like you are riding on a pillow. The average buyers age is about the same as Lincolns.......... 55+. They also have the reputation (whether deserved or not) of being poorly built, poorly put together, POS's. A world class platform does not a world class car make.

Unfortunately, I think the market will be existing Cadillac owners, or people moving up from the F-body/Corvette thing into a 4-door. I just have a hard time believing that the average well healed young person is going to want to tell his friends that he is driving around in a "Cadillac." Thus, while some may cross shop it........ I just don't see it as being the norm.

kizz

Hmm, another example of people buying what their friends want, as opposed to what they want? "Oh my like gosh, my friends will shun me if I'm not in a neon colored coupe with aftermarket stripes and neon lights and a booming system and 39 inch wheels.. here we have a sweet and tight Cadillac which looks great to me and could teach them a few lessons about the new Caddy, but no way I could show up in that.. they'd all roll their eyes at me and tell me to talk to the hand." Maybe I'm taking it too far, but today's co-dependent world is utterly ridiculous. Like one has to make sure there's no negative peer-pressure before they buy the car they want. Unless one's friends want to help on the payments, I'd say the logical thing to do is to buy the car one wants, the car that one enjoys. I don't know what could be simpler.

At that price though, it's a non-issue anyway. Probably need a 100K+/yr income to be able to afford a car like that, which ecludes people in that segment. New. Used is a different story.

gt

RiceEating5.0

One word "Image". For as long as i remember, BMW has had more prestige and class than Cadillac. In the world of high priced cars, you can't say that niether is important to the potential buyers.

1fastdog

25thTA

If all they're building is 3000 units, then this can be viewed as a "special edition" car where pricing is always higher than the standard edition. Therefore, the premium isn't just the "sum of all the go-fast parts". I agree they'll have no trouble selling all 3000.

The upside for those of us that won't spend 50K (even though we might be able to afford it) is that Caddy still has a long way to go to make the CTS stand up in quality and reputation against BMW and Mercedes. This means there will probably be changes on the car every year for the next few years and will really kill the resale values of the previous year models. I'm sure bargians won't be too hard to find on a CTS-v in a year or two.

It still stinks that V8 high performance is getting out of the mainstream though.

Darth Xed

Great points. That is what a lot of people do, think, why pay more for just an engine , when in reality you get a lot more.... all with a factory warranty.

And FWIW, a totally loaded CTS can get above $38k... knocking that difference down to $12k IF $50,000 is in fact CTS-V's price.

Chuck!

I can tell you this from personal expirence:

The CTS appeals to the youth. Not just GM guys, but I have no heard a negative comment from any of my friends - who are into mustangs, cougars, BMWs, Jeeps, Lexus, etc - about the CTS. Ive showed them the CTSv page and they all drool.

GM was dead on with this car. Im giddy, wont lie. This car did everything right.

RiceEating5.0

I didn't expect the rumored $35k sticker people were tossing around, so this doesn't come at a surprise to me. I expected this car to be near or equal in price to the z06 which is a 50k car.

redzed

According to Consumer Reports, the 3-series is almost as bad as a Cadillac in terms of reliability. However, like many people, I have the feeling that if I bought a BMW I might "beat the odds." From my experience with the nearest BMW dealer - nice sales staff, good service reputation - I could actually see taking the plunge.

However, I'm way too familiar with my local Chevrolet/Cadillac dealer. This garage has more DeVilles waiting for service than new Cadillacs waiting to be sold. If something goes wrong, you are SOL at this place.

Before people get too excited about the CTSv, they should remember that every current Cadillac has a lower reliability rating than any Hyundai. I'm going by Consumer Reports here. Even the Escalade is less reliable than the Tahoe, Suburban or Avalanche. The Chevys are listed in an average range, and the Caddy gets a black spot - the worst rating.

MacOSR

For another $5k or $6k I would rather have a loaded 540i. It IS still a Cadillac! Where is the steptronic tranny? Where is the natural wood interior? Where is the good leather? How about the heated steering wheel? ...this is not a $52,000 car!

I am shocked at the interior...image can be found at http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/.../overview.html I certainly hope it looks better in person.

I will still look at the CTSv this fall but I am more and more interested in the new 5 series.

EDIT: Pictures of new 5 series interior can be found here: http://www.bmw545.com/

redzed

You've got some good points. The BMW 5-series is a high-end luxury car, not a lesser car with Corvette parts. It's got the image, the build quality, and you actually have some choice.

Better yet, the next generation 545i actually gets the improved engine and transmission from the new 7-series. Overall, I've heard they've finally made I-drive easy to use, and taken away the stupid column shifter. This 5-series is going to steal 7-series sales. It's that good. I've also heard there is going to be a "super sedan" well beneath the M5 in price. Expect a 4.6 or 4.8 liter V8 motor, probably the same unit from the Z8 Alpina.

SageofKnight

Okay what world are you guys living in? I doubt many people buy these cars anymore...welcome to the world of the LEASE.

Anyway, I'm guessing the CTSv maxed out will come in right around the price to the next step up in Cadillac, which should be at most 45K or so. I doubt they will price it that far past the base price of the Deville and Seville and put it right at the cost of a base Escalade.