Al, ya gotta cut back on the caffene there buddy.

The SN95 wasn't a "carbon copy" of the original, but it's design IS heavily based on the 1st Mustangs, and was a "back to basics" approach by Team Mustang.

Side scoops, traditional grille, taillight lenses divided into 3rds, frameless door glass, the return of the running pony in the grille, wheels, and interior, the dual cowl dash were all inspired by the 60s Mustang done in a modern way.

Ford also took this same approach with the Mustang II. I posted the story about it awhile back, and Proudpony can probally recite the whole story behind Mustang II in his sleep. Lee Iaccoa (sp?) who had a big hand in the original, took the Mustang back to it's basics (1970s style), and wound up selling over 300,000 Mustang IIs per year for the 1st coupe of years. An obscene amount even by 1970s standards!

On our side, Camaro strayed from it's formula starting with the 2nd gen, when it became a low slung Grand Tourer. The 3rd and 4th gen were progressions of that path. Not a bad thing, since sales remained between strong to respectable up till it's final few years.

Mustangs, on the other hand, strayed from it's roots with the '71-73 cars, which where even by standards of the day, big, sluggish handling, mid-sized cars.

Just because someone says somthing you don't believe in, doesn't make them a Ford traitor. Alot of times, what they say is quite true.


BTW, FWIW, the Fox body Mustangs, while stylistically about as far removed from the original Mustang as you can get, is in every other way pure Mustang: Sedan based, low cost to make, sold at an extremely low price, 2 body styles, simple to work on, great handling (F-bodys simply raised the standard to new levels, but beyond them, there wasn't another 4 seater that could touch Fox Stangs in the 80s) a bookful of options to personalize your car, ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE performance aftermarket, & very impressive racing involvement.

 

His whole arguments are in line with the "kids won't buy mustang, they'll want 350z's instead" argument.

He doesn't see the facts, and he'll accuse you of spouting BS the second you refute his baseless arguments.

 

I give up on this site. I thought this was about the 5th gen, but it seems its more about GM bashing then anything else. Everything now is mustang this, mustang that.

I came here for info on the 5th gen Camaro, not some mustang. Whats amazing is that this keeps going on, and I get picked on. Whatever. Im not leaving this site because of the information that this site provides.
You are twisting my words around. I never said it was a carbon copy, but on this site, there have been posts by ford guys that says the new mustang looks a lot more like a sn95 mustang, then a 1st gen mustang. I stated what I have read here on this site, and I get what I have read on this site thrown back in my face. I cant stand this site anymore. Its more ford baised then anything else. If you badmouth ford, you get yelled and picked on. Well, Ill just stay in lurk mode and keep my ear to the ground about a future Camaro. I wont bring up any more anti-ford stuff.

 

There's 1) constructive opinions/arguments, and there's 2) downright childish and baseless bickering.

None is picking on you, but a lot of the guys here will approach a discussion/argument with an open mind. And it's hard for them to take your side when some of your posts borderline #2.

Example of one of your posts: "SVT has just gone away for a short time. They are coming back in 06 or 07. Trust me, no one wants to see SVT go away faster then me. If Ford cut all SVT spending and shut it down, I would be the happiest man alive."

Sorry if the guys here see the mustang/camaro rivalry as mutual (needing each other). Sorry if they don't share your anti-Ford sentiment. Sorry if some aren't blinded by brand loyalty. And you're wrong if you assume they're any less enthusiastic about the camaro just because they point out some of the flaws with your posts.

No offense bro, but grow up. I certainly won't be missing your posts, and i'm sure the board will go on without you either way, but suck it up like a man, stick around, and just be a little more tactful with your posts. Not everything that doesn't fit with your anti-ford sentiment is BS.

 

The Mustang II was closer to its roots than the '73 Mustang.

 

Now that i think of it, quite true.

Mustang was a small, compact, affordable, somewhat sport, and economical car to begin with. Big blocks weren't even an option till the late 60's.

 

Guion and riceeating5.0, you guys have it right.

Also, I don't understand why people beat up on one great american car because its still around while others are not.

I mean, the new stang looks to be a great car. It might not suit everyone's tastes but Ford has hit a homerun here.

Aside from being a Mustang Enthusiast, I'm an American Muscle/Pony Car enthusiast first. I would like nothing better than to see all the cars still around including the Camaro. But the fact is, right now there is only the mustang.

Remember, the mustang succeeding improves the chance of seeing a Camaro- or equivalent GM car. That's something we'd all benefit from IMO.

 

You very well might need medication. No one in any post EVER said the 2005 Mustang looked more like the SN95 than the 60's Mustangs. Every baseless accusation you've made has been from your lack of understanding what others have written. While you tend to bash Ford, SVT and Mustangs in general, those of us who like the Blue Oval that visit this sight tend to not bash GM. In fact, many of us like GM. I could care less if you stayed or went. I certainly won't miss you. If you have something to contribute to build this "5th Gen AND FUTURE VEHICLE DISCUSSION" forum room then I'd love to hear it. I only ask that you try and be a little nicer about it. Have a nice day!

 

Uh... the thread here is about Mustang's 40th anniversary.
If the thread upsets you, why not simply avoid reading it??

You came to the forum with the most devoted, most rabid Camaro enthusiasts on the planet. However, the people here at the 5th gen "and future vehicles" also appriciate competition from other rear drive performance cars as well. I refuse to believe you don't understand this. Every true car enthusiast understands this, even the most rabid fans of a particular model.

If you were here the day the last 4th gen rolled off the assembly line, there were links to various Mustang site's forums in which devoted Mustang fans mourned the F-body's demise with a respect of a battlefield commander who won the war, but respected the other side's courage.

This place isn't like "The Lounge" where the hotheads and the loudmouths live. You'll find alot of people here who though have a favorite performance car (Camaro), they also have an appreciation of performance cars in general. You also have an assortment of people here who have an amazing knowledge of cars & their history & behind the scenes history, even of other brands.

So don't take it so personally if someone with correct info disagrees with you or corrects you. It simply means you are wrong. I'm still earning my "online engineering degree" from PacerX , so don't be so darned thin skinned.

Mustang does not "=" enemy. Mustang=Camaro.

That 5th gen Camaro we are looking forward to? Like it or not, if it wasn't for Mustang showing that a market does exist, Camaro would stay buried permanently! If it wasn't for the crowd gathered at the Mustang display last year and around production versions this year, there wouldn't be that "need to compete" that's driving the current Camaro forward. This isn't to mention that Camaro was developed in response to the Mustang in the 1st place.

I think everyone realizes the need for Mustangs in order to have Camaros, so unless you'd rather be driving a FWD Colbalt SS instead, ya gotta lighten up and realize (like it or not) the 5th gen Camaro needs Mustang.

 

then, in the same contex, the Mustang needs the Camaro.

 

If so, I haven't seen it yet. In all seriousness, I've never once believed or seen whether or not Ford cared too much about Camaro as competition for most of its years in production. Now, that doesn't mean from time to time haven't. As it stands now, there is no Camaro and no Firebird, but Ford continues to sell Mustangs. Do you really think it needs Camaro? Ford is predicting 170,000+ Mustangs will be sold in the 2005 MY. That's with no Camaro nor Firebird. It has no real competition (yet). In fact, I would say with the Camaro and Firebird gone, Mustang sales will probably increase! One day, and I hope soon, the Camaro will be back to compete with Mustang, not just in performance, but in sales. The possible new Camaro may just have what it takes if what I'm hearing is true. Let's hope it is.

 

i believe i read somewhere that the one of the reasons,among others,to greenlight the SN95 was GM's decision to go ahead with the 4th gen F-body.also,the '93 cobra existed to keep the cobra name,keep mustang people happy until '94 and....attempt to spoil the new F-body party.i know for a FACT that the mach 3 show car existed just to steal auto show thunder from the then new f-body.corporate pride(or coletti pride) is also a reason we had ever more powerful cobras for the last ten years,with the '03-'04 meant to put to rest any questions.so while the mustang may not need the camaro to survive now,it did benefit from the rivarly and vice versa the camaro.i believe the front drive F-body plans from the '70s were junked in light of the '79 RWD fox mustang.
also,the mustang may not have the traditional competition its had for 40 years,it still has sales competition,like the eclispe,RSX,350Z,mini cooper,GTO,the mustang vert will have PT cruiser vert,beetle vert and the new MINI convertible breathing down its neck.while not the same performance,most of those cars are sporty and in the same price range.styling and fuzzy baby boomer memories will only carry you so far,mustang will HAVE to stay on its game,camaro or no.but i hope there will be a new camaro in the future,or if not named camaro,a RWD pony car with a 6.OL V8.hope.hope.hope.

 

Big Als Z, theres no reason to give up on this site and you're not getting picked on by any means. Earlier I was a little harsh, but I'd be super pi$$ed if some Mustang guys spouted off just because a bunch of Camaro/Firebird guys threw a big celebration for the F-body.

Like others have stated, the Camaro NEEDS the Mustang to do well in order to comeback as best as it can be. Personally, while others may gripe about a possible 500hp future Mustang, I WANNA see it happen! The way I see it, I hope the Mustang wanders heavily into Vette territory, know why? Because I know GM WILL NEVER let their almighty Corvette be outclassed by the Mustang for long. Thus we'll end up getting a much better performing Vette and also IMO followed up with a much better performing Camaro.

No need to go anywhere, just realize that a better performing Mustang now will equal a better performing 5th gen for all us Camaro diehards in the near future

 

Some highlights of how Camaro and Mustang are completely intertwined.

-Sept. 1966, Camaro is released to compete with Mustang.
Several Camaro SS packages are developed to compete with Mustang GT.

-Dec. 1966, first Z/28 is released to race teams in order to compete with Group 2 Mustang Notchbacks (basically Shelby developed Mustang Notchbacks with ALL GT-350R hardware and a back seat, [required by SCCA rules],),in SCCA Trans An road race series.

-1969, Mustang BOSS 302 released to compete with Z/28 in SCCA Trans Am.

-1970, Camaro withdraws from Trans Am, with no Camaro to compete against...Mustang withdraws the following year.

-1982, Mustang GT with a newly developed H.O. 5.0, is released to compete with newly released 3rd gen Z/28.

-1983, Chevy releases L-69 HO motor in Z/28 to compete with Mustang GT.

-1985, Mustang developes port fuel injected HO 5.0 to gain dominance over Camaro.

-1985 and on....

Camaro gets TPI LB9 initially with auto only...and then later, with M5 and G92 performance package...and B2L 5.7 TPI, to get the edge over Mustang.

-1993, Mustang Cobra and Cobra R are released to compete with 4th gen LT1 Z/28

-LS1 forces Ford to develop 4V 4.6 Cobra and finally '03/'04 SC 4.6.





What does all this mean to me?..........


I want Mustang to be awesome!!!

 

to the article.

IMO the Camaro has a much bigger enthusiast base than the M*stang or Corvette. It seems to me that most people who buy M*stangs do it just to have a sporty car (a me too kind of car) and that most Corvette owners buy them just because they are Corvettes. Not to say that they don't have their enthusiasts too, but Camaros in my experience, are a different thing. From what I've seen, 90% of Camaro owners I meet buy them because they really want affordable performance in all areas or they are Camaro lunatics. When I go to shows and cruises, (very often) Camaro's almost always are the most plentiful. (as are Chevys in general) When you read magazines Camaro's are usually featured more than any other car. (think Camaro Craft for example ) When I see a covered car or a stored/garaged car, I'd say about 7 out of 10 times it's a show worthy Camaro when I ask what it is.