You got it. Look at all the time and effort that's been wasted on improving little details, like the appearance of an interior door pull or the consistancy of the backlight of a radio face. In the meantime, we're still putting up with crap like ineffective windshield wipers and tires that go flat. Do you actually think we can just drop everything and switch to hybrid drivetrains, when it costs millions of dollars to change to a different style of aluminum wheel or a slighty different shape to a bucket seat?

I only wish I could share some of the cost numbers that I deal with every day, and my little corner of the world involves some pretty basic stuff if you start comparing it to powertrains. Anyone who doesn't work in the auto industry would be shocked and hopefully disgusted at the true cost of doing business in today's environment.

And frankly, it all comes back to consumers, who place more value on getting just the right texture and feel to a padded dash than they place on getting from Point A to Point B in the most efficient manner.

Sometime in the next few generations, someone's going to come to the realization that we've squandered a few decades of human effort. The longer I stay in this business in the current climate, the more I feel that I'm not contributing a single positive thing to society. This goes a lot deeper than "liberal guilt", folks.

The next time that anyone looks at a particular piece of automotive trim and thinks that it's got just the right color of powdercoat or the correct level of polish, take a moment to comprehend that the time and money that went into perfecting that trivial detail might have been spent on bringing a practical fuel cell to life, or lower-cost solar panels to the roof of your house, or a wind turbine to the nearest hill. I hope everyone's comfortable with the real price we pay for our terribly short-minded materialism.

And now back to the standard bickering over the best armrest material for the next-generation GM sports sedan.

 

Exactomundo.

And it goes beyond just that. We have people dieing everyday over oil supplies. Thousands of our troops have died over in the last few decades. Yet if some poeple put the state of our country and world ahead of their own personal financial goals, we'd be in a lot better of a sitation. Bush spent $1.5 Billion on fuel cell technology. Only a fraction of that would have to be spent to bring some of these inventions of the past few years to commercial use.

Check out www.disclosureproject.org if your interested in a lot of this stuff.

 

Don't let Threxx read this.

Note the key item in Eric's excellent post above: it comes down to the consumers. Of course, it is pretty normal to want nicer things, but what is the motive? To have it because someone else has it? I want my (daily) car to be QUIET when cruising, but I don't need leather and wood or luscious simulated versions of them. In fact, noise is my biggest beef with my daily driven Saturn (in sig). At highway speeds, a bit too much noise enters the cabin, and it gets old. But it is quite possible to make cars quiet nowadays without breaking the bank.

On the other hand, in a capitalist market, when companies are trying to sell a product, they have to offer something that the other guy doesn't. Luxurious interiors are one way to set cars apart, because any modern car can get one from A to B rather reliably...

Also, Eric, I completely understand what you are saying about contributing. When I first started here, I got bogged down pretty quickly by the monotony of daily corportate life. In my current role in the world of OBD, I get to remind myself that my job exists because the bureaucrats out in Cali change the rules on us every few years... (not quite that simple, but you get the idea). These facts, combined with my longstanding interest (sometimes strong, sometimes weak) in the armed forces, made me come *this* close to joining the A/F with the intention of being a pilot...

*Sigh*

 

I think it's ironic that people who buys cars with performance as their #1 (and sometimes only) objective, and then proceed to spend even more money insuring them, maintaining them, and especially modding them.... turn around and critisize those who appreciate well-made cars with solid and precise engineering inside and out.

How many of you spend an excessive amount of time and/or money cleaning and/or maintaining your car?

Different strokes for different folks: having an excessive amount of horsepower is just as "pointless" as having over-built quality control and quality of materials.

And it seems many people agree with me judging by buying trends and surveys.

Next time you spend any amount of money on something that is a luxury rather than a necessity, think back to luxury interior design and obsessive quality control on cars. Is it necessary? Probably not. Is it cost-effective? That's questionable depending on the vehicle in consideration. Is it attractive to many consumers? Yes... much the same as some luxuries (such as additional power and handling capabilities) are attractive to people like you.

 

I'm curious as to why companies like Honda and Toyota are able to do both (relatively speaking)- satisfy the materialist, and push the envelope with powertrain technology.

You're not presenting a good case for the Big 3. Perhaps that was your intent.

Todd

 

Actually I think his intent was to make his case against Eric Bryant.

 

I wasn't picking on any one person or even a select group of people, so please don't get all butt-hurt I think that as a society, we make some really ****-poor decisions as to the allocation of our limited resources, and I see it every day. Billions of dollars are spent each year in the industry trying to improve things that, quite honestly, won't make a damn bit of difference 50 years from now, much less 500 years from now, and as an engineer who believes very strongly in the job description that was so wonderfully presented by ProudPony, it's a bit frustrating.

I don't have the time to do that stuff - I'm too busy replacing POS in-tank fuel pumps that don't reach the 70K mark, or replacing brake rotors that warp after a few hard stops, or EGR valves that either clog up or fail to seal up, or swapping out automatic transmissions that don't last 100,000 miles. That sort of stuff presents a cost to society, too. Fix this crap, and I'll start to give a rat's *** about the texture of the leather used on the headrest or the color-matching of the undercoating to the control arm paint.

Seriously, I've been known to tackle more than just a few projects that some would put in the "fanatical" category. But in my case, it's more of an educational experience than anything else.

I'm not looking to deprive anyone of their method of relaxation and personal expression; I just want folks to realize that everything they do has consequences, and that society as a whole has a long ways to go when it comes to this whole capitalism thing.

 

 

"Yeah, but you own an old V8 car. Why bother?"
That reads like a cut and paste of something I've said, and the above was the retort. My reply- "WAIT WAIT WAIT. You live in a 3200sq ft, single story house, with a black roof, and no curtains on the west-facing windows, drive a frickin' Land Cruiser, and I'M getting $hit about driving a 24 year old car, that gets 30% better mileage than it did off the showroom floor, 4000 miles/year???? NO NO NO, Sorry."

I can say that I am fortunate. Management at companies I go to listens to me. Seriously- what I say is golden. I have found this at most places I've gone. I cannot explain why (well, sure I can- I give good recommendations, but that's rhetorical ), but I am thankful. I'm a field guy, though, not a "real" engineer (no degree).

You forgot to mention your most precious resource- your own time. You have but a finite amount. Time that must be exchanged for money to pay for your consumption. A waste of resources (e.g. leaving the sliding door open to your porch on a hot summer day, while the AC is running) is a waste of time that you'll NEVER get back. For nothing, really. I value my time enough not to waste it so frivolously.

And, to bring this back around to topic- if everyone thought this way, we wouldn't be worrying about CAFE, or Middle East oil. We wouldn't need it.

Todd