This is going to be interesting...

I still think this thing is going to get old quick, especially if they're V6 models all over the street.

 

This is Cerberus trying to get on the rear drive "band wagon" which will only end up costing the company more money.

The Challenger will be a low volume car. I think I reported that 50k units first year due to demand then settling at 35k for the next four years.

It's to be a five year car.

 

What planet have you been living on for the last few years? Did you miss the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger or something? Chrysler IS the band this time around.

Please provide support for the assertion that Cerberus has changed ANYTHING having to do with the Challenger.

Well, you "reported" wrong.

 

There is only one way to tell, and that is time.

 

This is the same person who sees no point in a new Camaro....

 

I can't argue with you there.

GM will achieve their 100,000 sales figure for the Camaro because it will also be sold over seas. Other than that...you are absolutely right. I stand by my word. I see no point for a new Camaro.

 

Hey Josh... do "over seas" sales not count or something?

 

We could go round for round all night.

I know that my belief that a Camaro is not necessary is frowned upon here. Looking at the bigger picture I tend to think that I may be right.

As with the Challenger and what I've said...only one way to find out what will happen.

That is time. To me...the Camaro will not last beyond a 7 year run. There's absolutely no market for it except a die hard Internet community and..the kicker to this all...Come 2010 it will be the Chevrolet Volt that brings consumers into Chevy's showroom and not the Camaro or Corvette.

I'm sorry that my opinion is not the popular one but...as I said, I will stick by my guns.

 

Public perception isn't something you can beat with a car that's 5x better than the competition.

Just be happy we are getting a 5th gen. After that we can worry about the possibility of a 6th gen.

 

Dude, when you say stuff that makes no sense or is obviously contradicted by evidence, you're going to get called on it. That's part of blogging, or journalism, or whatever it is you think you're doing. Responding and owning up when you're wrong, is also part of blogging or journalism, and based on what I've seen here I'd say you have a problem with that.

For example, when you make statements like "This is Cerberus trying to get on the rear drive 'band wagon'" or claim that you were the "first" to suggest that WB might try to get involved with Chrysler indirectly after leaving VW, and you ignore or pooh-pooh direct responses without addressing them, your credibility starts to look a little iffy. You can't afford that when you're doing things like hanging out on Camaro boards saying that the fifth-gen isn't "necessary", not if you want to get established with this "reporting" thing.

 

I like the sound of "Super Camaro"

Competition is a great thing and the Big 3 are all gonna be heavy players in this segment. Gonna be fun to watch and be a part of

And Josh I've also never gotten your reasoning on the Camaro. Not flaming, just trying to understand it. Right now there is no Camaro. If there was a Camaro, built right and looking good, there would probably be at least an extra 80-100k sales a year for GM right now.

Are you basing it off of the gas price/future CAFE crunch? I think our generation is a little ignorant to think we're the first fuel crisis. The coupe market survived the 70's-80's, I dont see why it wouldnt survive this. And if we move further from gasoline and on to other fuel sources, coupes will move right along with it being powered by those fuel sources.

If the Camaro can indeed meet the goal of being an everyday user friendly coupe, then I see all the reason in the world for it to be part of GM's portfolio. Ford has done this well with the Mustang. You have your hardcore 'stang enthusiasts that see it only as a muscle car and know everything there ever was about the car. Then you have your normal folks that drive the car from A to B everyday, but just want something a little sporty, and know nothing of Mustang's past.

 

Explain this to me. The Camaro is not necessary, but the Solstice that you drive is? I see a Camaro having a hell of a lot more function day to day than a 2 seat roadster....

 

We're getting off topic.

IIRC, Josh believes the time and money being spent on Camaro would be better spent on the volume products, or at the very least, a more practical image car like that Volt.

But apparently, they can afford to do both, so I don't see the problem.

 

Which cars ARE necessary for GMs survival?

If one of those cars were Camaro, GM would be dead right now, would it not? If GM cancelled the 5th Gen tomorrow, would GM go under in 2009 or 2010 or whatever? Or would it invest that money in another line - perhaps a more profitable line?

So back to the original question - which cars are really necessary for GM to survive?

I think this is where Josh is coming from, and he seems to be capable of seeing things through somewhat less biased eyes than others.

OutsiderIROCZ.....where did Josh state the Soltice was "necessary"?

That said...I damn sure hope the 5th Gen does indeed do well, does indeed become more of a 'necessity' for GM, and is indeed followed by a 6th Gen...perferribly without the 7 year, uh, 'hiatus', and with something less than 10 years between major restyles.

That's getting into Ford Ranger territory.

 

New Camaro is a game changer. Every once-in-a-while you have to step away from what you've been doing and listen to your gut (thank you, Jack).

If it's executed correctly, the business case could be made on the marketing mileage they'll get from the car alone, before you even go into sales.

That's seeing the forest through the trees.